Red SKD

[Lucas Wilson]

Really then, there is no exact comparison for SpeedgradeXR in the SCRATCH lineup.

XR is limited to QT/AVI and RAW formats. No DPX, no TIFF, etc. But XR has the secondary capabilities. SCRATCH-CINE has QT/AVI and R3D file support. But no "scaffold" capabilities.

You can't really compare to SCRATCH FINISH, since FINISH has suport for R3D, QT/AVI... *and* all single-frame formats, i.e.: DPX, TIFF, EXR, etc.

I guess they are just different products.

Lucas

 

[laguun]

Really then, there is no exact comparison for SpeedgradeXR in the SCRATCH lineup.

XR is limited to QT/AVI and RAW formats. No DPX, no TIFF, etc. But XR has the secondary capabilities. SCRATCH-CINE has QT/AVI and R3D file support. But no "scaffold" capabilities.

You can't really compare to SCRATCH FINISH, since FINISH has suport for R3D, QT/AVI... *and* all single-frame formats, i.e.: DPX, TIFF, EXR, etc.

I guess they are just different products.

Lucas

Speedgrade XR writes cin, dpx, tiff as well as AVI and QT. Input is raw, avi/qt (which wrap dpx and cin btw) and it has no further feature limitations. Also when using 10bit aja or blackmagic decklink codecs in RGB and YUV, it bypasses the quicktime subsystem and decodes directly, as with arri, cineform, phantom, si 2k, weisscam etc and thus removing all the nasty restrictions with qt updates and interfaces - and also can use its 3D luts. So the quality is no dofferent from dpx/cin/tiff input.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

As soon as CineForm makes available a raw converter for build 16 the game is going to change for Assimilate. Few will pay $70,000 for Scratch when they can spend half that for an eight core PC with raid, CS3, CineForm, and Speedgrade XR. With this system you can edit in 4K in real time and non destructively color correct. I predict 80 percent of Red owners will adopt CineForm, either PC or Mac after the SDK. I have nothing against Assimilate. They have provided us with the free tools, RedCine/Red Alert, we needed to start using Red. But with render times at more than ten times real time these two programs are only solutions for those with a very small volume of files to process. Full Scratch is just out of the majority of Red owner's price league. Once CineForm releases the build 16 converter we can convert to CineForm raw at about two times real time. Perhaps I should try and convince everyone that CineForm is not a good solution for Red so that my prediction will not come true. Then Jay A Kelly and I could hatch a plan using CineForm to dominate the world of digital cinema. We could split up the globe. Jay - Red states (except Texas), Australia, South America, China, UK and Guam. I'll take the rest. Oh, wait. There's Thor and, Oh Yea, there are a lot of others. My bad.

Ummm I like Cineform and all, but I don't think it will replace Scratch... Ever. Scratch is a VERY high-end tool well designed to do a specific job, in Real Time.. Cineform can do some basic editing in real time, but at some point you are going to have to render what you have, and when that happens... Yikes.. Get some coffee and take a LONG nap.

I love Cineform, and it works for a lot of things, but it's not Scratch. They are for different things.

I'm still up for taking over the world though.. That would be cool!

Jay

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Speedgrade XR writes cin, dpx, tiff as well as AVI and QT. Input is raw, avi/qt (which wrap dpx and cin btw) and it has no further feature limitations. Also when using 10bit aja or blackmagic decklink codecs in RGB and YUV, it bypasses the quicktime subsystem and decodes directly, as with arri, cineform, phantom, si 2k, weisscam etc and thus removing all the nasty restrictions with qt updates and interfaces - and also can use its 3D luts. So the quality is no dofferent from dpx/cin/tiff input.

SCRATCH-CINE also writes CIN, DPX, TIFF, and AVI and QT... And when using 10bit codecs, SCRATCH-CINE can also do true 10-bit QT, with 1D and 3D LUTs, and realtime deck output

My immediate point was that a comparison to SCRATCH FINISH is not accurate.

Also - I'm unclear on this - does XR include realtime deck layoff capabilities to all formats?

Lucas

 

[laguun]

SCRATCH-CINE also writes CIN, DPX, TIFF, and AVI and QT... And when using 10bit codecs, SCRATCH-CINE can also do true 10-bit QT, with 1D and 3D LUTs, and realtime deck output

My immediate point was that a comparison to SCRATCH FINISH is not accurate.

Also - I'm unclear on this - does XR include realtime deck layoff capabilities to all formats?

Lucas

I am also unclear on this - i wait for our full XR test (with decks etc) until redcode support is offcially added and not only in the internal versions.

But there are several users here (axel mertens i think) who might already have lots of practical project experience with the xr version as well.

 

[Martin Tlaskal]

Jas,

I wonder how easily these file based systems will actually port to r3d which will require some real time render engine and decompression.

Scratch is WAY ahead of the other developers in this area.

I am not sure why everyone assumes that software designed to look at files instead of streams will very easily be able to incorporate RED footage.

I think it will be dpx and tiff for for a while as these apps will do the work to incorporate RED r3d files when there is enough customer demand and depending on how easily it can be incorporated into the software architecture.

David

Baselight is actually pretty strong at dealing with compressed media, it's something we're putting a lot of work into. We already support lots of MXF variants (native DNxHD support coming in the next release), Quicktime variants for conform, playback/grading and rendering. R3D support shouldn't be a big deal, once we get our head around the SDK.

Disclaimer: I work at FilmLight.

 

[Jason Wingrove]

great to hear Martin
Many people will welcome your collective heads getting round it

jas

 

[David Wyatt]

Baselight is actually pretty strong at dealing with compressed media, it's something we're putting a lot of work into. We already support lots of MXF variants (native DNxHD support coming in the next release), Quicktime variants for conform, playback/grading and rendering. R3D support shouldn't be a big deal, once we get our head around the SDK.

Disclaimer: I work at FilmLight.

Martin - get back to work, we need R3Ds working natively in Baselight!!! Seriously that would be soooo cool...any guess at how long it would take?

 

[Martin Tlaskal]

Martin - get back to work, we need R3Ds working natively in Baselight!!! Seriously that would be soooo cool...any guess at how long it would take?

Like everyone else, we've applied for the SDK and are waiting to get hold of it so we can take a look, so it's a little early to talk timescales. However, it's a pretty common question, so we're keen to do it.

 

[Rainer Fritz]

Martin other question.... I am not really familiar with baselight, but our biggest laboratory uses it... think you know LISTO in Vienna. So my question goes to conforming on baselight... is it true that baselight can only conform on EDL? No XML input or ALE ???? I want to feature out the smothest online process from our Avid or Final Cut workflow......

thx
rainer

 

[Martin Tlaskal]

Martin other question.... I am not really familiar with baselight, but our biggest laboratory uses it... think you know LISTO in Vienna. So my question goes to conforming on baselight... is it true that baselight can only conform on EDL? No XML input or ALE ???? I want to feature out the smothest online process from our Avid or Final Cut workflow......

thx
rainer

Hi Rainer,

Baselight is currently capable of reading 3 edl formats:
- CXM edls
- Avid AAFs.
- FilmLight edls (typically used for keycode conforms)
The next major release will add support for FCP XML. Both AAF and FCP XML workflows are capable of rendering MXF/Quicktimes which can be relinked by the respective editing systems. We are also capable of generating an updated AAF file which directly links (via UID) to the rendered media, making it super-easy to get graded jobs back into the Avid.

 

[Jannard]

Deanan and Rob will answer all SDK questions from now on in the Workflow forum...

Jim