Red Scarlet vs BMC

[dennys bisogno]

And delivering in 2015 due to dust issues? ;-)

LMAO, I love when people start attributing wonderful functionality on a v2.0 version of a camera which version 1.0 remains not in production (unless you are famous DP).

Yes BM is a great company that would do great things, and in 2015 I bet they will have a 20K camera for under $1000 but that does not help us now.

 

[Andrew Julian]

Hey leave Josh alone, he paid me a nice compliment on my bmcc footage

I doubt the internet will ever tire of these debates, but at the end of the day you just gotta use the best tools you can get your hands on and shoot.

Both cameras offer great quality and value at their prices. I would bet that if BMD built a camera with all of the features of a scarlet then it would cost about as much as a scarlet. At $3,000 they had to focus on the essential features of a camera. If that and the format and lens options work for you then you're getting a great deal. If you need more you'll have to pay more. This $3,000 camera isn't a scarlet killer, but it's also not 1/4th of the camera that the scarlet is and like Josh mentioned it will take away potential scarlet sales. I've been close a number of times to purchasing a scarlet, but got a bmc for now instead. I have little doubt that I'll own a Red someday, but I'm happy to currently have such a capable little camera for my work. And at less than $2400 (after selling the copy of resolve that came with it) it's hard to argue that it's not a killer deal, but I guess no one is actually making that argument.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Here's my take on Scarlet vs BMC.

For starters, see this FANTASTIC piece for HBO GO shot by Paul Schneider, on a SCARLET. He just posted it this week.

First off, this spot looks fantastic, and should reassure everyone of the agency/commercial appeal of this camera. In the right hands, it can clearly do wonders. The Wachowski's used it for a reason. At 4K 6:1 it looks the same as an Epic.

Two, the Scarlet is available NOW.

Third, and here's where I can relate personally, as I work in TV and Cable. I can't imagine telling a high paying TV client that we are going to shoot their spot on a BMC as opposed to a RED or an ALEXA. They know enough to know the difference, and they expect the best when they are paying for it. When we bring our Scarlets on set, all they see is RED, and when they get 4K deliverables and QT Proxies they love it. With REDs on set, you can get a $50k shoot budget. But with BMC's, it would bring us back to DSLR budgets, which are more in the $10k range.

So, for me the Scarlets keep our budgets high, and clients happy. So in the end...they more than offset the extra $$$ they cost vs the BMC.

But obviously we all have different needs.

If I was just getting into the camera world, and was going to get my first cam, it would certainly be a BMC.

But that's not the same as a Scarlet.

 

[Peter Osinski]

I'm not going to argue that the BMC isnt a great deal. It is. But to say it's better than the Scarlet, and then remind us that you think Alexa is better than Epic (cuz Deakins say so), suggests you have a particular agenda...that understandably...few of us are that sympathetic too (and that's putting it kindly).

I really think its a bit of a stretch to say someone has an agenda, besides....all the arri spies come from band pro not reduser right? sorry maybe its too soon for jokes...anyway I think this guy has an opinion and hasnt figured out this isnt the right crowd to voice certain opinions to.

That being said I think we've exhausted this discussion as far as words go. Anyone care to set up a side by side test so that we have some footage to look at? (spoiler alert scarlet wins resolution test)

 

[Scott Crawley]

I really think its a bit of a stretch to say someone has an agenda, besides....all the arri spies come from band pro not reduser right? sorry maybe its too soon for jokes...anyway I think this guy has an opinion and hasnt figured out this isnt the right crowd to voice certain opinions to.

That being said I think we've exhausted this discussion as far as words go. Anyone care to set up a side by side test so that we have some footage to look at? (spoiler alert scarlet wins resolution test)

I hate to take this veering into philosophy but; Should he voice his opinions only in places where people can be expected to agree with him?

Here is to the shit stirrers everywhere... they poke us with pointed sticks, they prod us out of our comfort zones, they challenge our preconceived notions and sometimes persuade us to open our minds.

You keep on Josh, just keep it respectful and no one should get hurt. ;-)

 

[Peter Osinski]

I hate to take this veering into philosophy but; Should he voice his opinions only in places where people can be expected to agree with him?

I'm not saying only to people who will agree with him. I'm saying maybe he should take it somewhere that he can have an honest discussion. Its safe to say that anyone who cheers for the underdog in any RED vs (insert camera here) fight on this thread will be shot down and quickly. Then again if you have a vs thread on any forum usually its a one sided argument for the camera the forum is based off of (bmc, red, gh2 (personal-view), nikonrumors, canonrumors).

I do think price plays a part in this as well. People are going to be much more offended if you compare their 15k investment to a 3k camera (bmc) than if you compare it to a 100k camera (f65, alexa). I think just the title of the thread insults peoples pride. I personally don't have as much of a dog in this fight as I use the camera for work when appropriate but I do not own one.

Maybe if we changed the name of the site to redfans.net or overprotectiveredowner.net people would get the hint and not start these types of threads.... the latter of the two might be a little too "on the nose" though

 

[Scott Crawley]

Maybe if we changed the name of the site to redfans.net or overprotectiveredowner.net people would get the hint and not start these types of threads.... the latter of the two might be a little too "on the nose" though

That's pretty funny. but remember, this isn't a fanboy site created by and maintained for fanboys. This site exists to serve Red.

 

[Peter Osinski]

That's pretty funny. but remember, this isn't a fanboy site created by and maintained for fanboys. This site exists to serve Red.

I know I know...sometimes things become something they weren't supposed to be though.

that being said I don't think this thread serves red. There is more "RED is better don't be stupid" attitude here than "the scarlet is a better investment and this is why". The "RED is always better no matter what, anything else sucks"attitude might be a turn off for people coming to this thread looking for help with a purchasing decision. I think if the forum was more positive it would be a better marketing tool for red

 

[James_Mills]

I'm not saying only to people who will agree with him. I'm saying maybe he should take it somewhere that he can have an honest discussion. Its safe to say that anyone who cheers for the underdog in any RED vs (insert camera here) fight on this thread will be shot down and quickly. Then again if you have a vs thread on any forum usually its a one sided argument for the camera the forum is based off of (bmc, red, gh2 (personal-view), nikonrumors, canonrumors).

I do think price plays a part in this as well. People are going to be much more offended if you compare their 15k investment to a 3k camera (bmc) than if you compare it to a 100k camera (f65, alexa). I think just the title of the thread insults peoples pride. I personally don't have as much of a dog in this fight as I use the camera for work when appropriate but I do not own one.

Maybe if we changed the name of the site to redfans.net or overprotectiveredowner.net people would get the hint and not start these types of threads.... the latter of the two might be a little too "on the nose" though

Nobody's arguing that the BMC isn't a great deal. I would go so far as to say that, for the dollar, it's a better deal than the Scarlet.

It's his fatuous claims that the BMC is actually a BETTER camera than the Scarlet that is rightfully receiving its requited contention. And under what grounds? Because "his eyes tell him so"? After watching some compressed streams on a computer monitor? He can opine all he wants, but expecting him to ​not get put in his place is unreasonable, and that goes for any forum that objective, critical thinkers peruse.

 

[Brian Merlen]

For its price BMC is a great camera, but why compare it to a Red? Lets just compare it to Alexas, Phantoms, F65, Delta, F5, F55, etc? Because obviously comparing it to much higher end cameras is kind of useless is the reality... Sure a lot of the above shoot raw, beyond hd, etc...but everyone knows what the BMC lacks.... Which is over cranks, 3k, 4k, and managable raw data, at least at this point....


So as a recent (pre price cut) Scarlet owner I love my additional features and like the Scarlet. Sure the BMC would of given me much of what I wanted, but its too limited for my own needs. I can't get a cosign deal on a camera that is only 3k, and I can't get higher end work with it. I might still buy a BMC, but it is what it is, a notch above a 5D

 

[Peter Osinski]

For its price BMC is a great camera, but why compare it to a Red?

because they are the 2 of the cheapest options from major brands currently available that shoot raw (ikonoskop never really seemed to catch on and dbolex doesnt exist). There are some people that want to shoot raw that might REALLY need to stretch their budget to get a scarlet but could more easily afford a bmc and therefore need to compare the two. Furthermore I would think it becomes more valid because people in the price range are likely not showing their work in 4k, and by the time they will (likely tv commercials and web video) there will be cheaper options for 4k. The "do I need 4k right now" question is one of the biggest questions facing people in this range, especially now that the price of shooting 4k on an fs700 has shot above that of a working scarlet.

what the BMC lacks.... Which is over cranks, 3k, 4k, and managable raw data, at least at this point....

That right there is what an objective discussion should be made of, not putting the original poster "in his place" as james said.

but it is what it is, a notch above a 5D

I think it is much more than a notch above the 5d (im not really a fan of the 5d, especially its barely updated 5d3)

edit: I'm not really debating the cameras at this point, I'm only saying that it is a valid to compare them. It is even more true for those looking to make a personal purchase rather than a business one

 

[Roger Valdes]

Deleted

 

[Josh Snyder]

For its price BMC is a great camera, but why compare it to a Red? Lets just compare it to Alexas, Phantoms, F65, Delta, F5, F55, etc? Because obviously comparing it to much higher end cameras is kind of useless is the reality... Sure a lot of the above shoot raw, beyond hd, etc...but everyone knows what the BMC lacks.... Which is over cranks, 3k, 4k, and managable raw data, at least at this point....


So as a recent (pre price cut) Scarlet owner I love my additional features and like the Scarlet. Sure the BMC would of given me much of what I wanted, but its too limited for my own needs. I can't get a cosign deal on a camera that is only 3k, and I can't get higher end work with it. I might still buy a BMC, but it is what it is, a notch above a 5D

BMC and Scarlet are both too limited for me. I don't want to shoot under 720p with cropped sensor to get pleasent fps. That's why I'm (probably) not buying either of them, but if I do I will get BMC for B cam and personal stuff because it's so much cheaper and can do everything in my use that Scarlet would be able to do and produces at least as good image for 2K delivery.

120fps is minimum for many stuff I shoot so I rather use Gopro 3 to shoot 720p/120fps than Scarlet 1K/120fps (1K is smaller than 720p in case you didn't know). I mean 400$ camera can shoot 720p/120fps why on earth I would buy 15,000$ camera to shoot same fps but in lower 1K resolution.

 

[Eric Santiago]

Awe are we being punked?

April Fools isnt for another half a year

 

[Stephen Matthews]

Well then you are in a very different market segment and if a 120fps 720p POV camera is more suitable for you why are you even considering a cinema grade camera, or here talking about it? there is a massive price difference between that and a scarlet let alone an epic... or just rent a phantom as high speed work seems to be what you do that is really the only game in town as far as HQ super high speed goes.

There will always be the grass is greener camera out there that drives young indi filmmakers wild. That's great, but channel that passion into creation not destruction. Opinions are one things and facts are another, both camera's have concrete facts in their favor, scarlet a more robust feature set and professional build, where the BMC has a great price.

Please stop putting down camera's you have never used or repeating things others have said if it's not your first hand experience. this is some peoples jobs and livelihoods not just a fun romp on weekends, or something they are messing around with at school this is their life. A certain group here obviously don't like their camera attacked and most of them haven't even touched it yet so how about we all play nice and respect each others gear.

And remember people almost every camera company has it's own site these days, if you can't play nice perhaps we should refrain from posting on boards of cameras we don't own or plan to own.

P.s. I would love to buy a BMC especially for the copy of resolve though at this point I don't have the money so I shall wait, I don't know why these two need to belittle the other both are wonderful cameras from great companies who as I see it would go great together... but I guess that is just me.
...I love how spoiled we are nowadays... I'll only shoot in 120fps...

 

[Scott Crawley]

The "do I need 4k right now" question is one of the biggest questions facing people in this range

Agreed. And it goes beyond merely "what can I afford", because there are those who can afford to buy it but don't need it "now" and can't afford to hold it while it's market value declines. That may mean in fact that they CAN'T actually afford it and they will either choose something else, or take the hit when it comes.

 

[Josh Snyder]

Obviously Gorpo is for POV shots and other "inside the action" stuff where the camera is in danger or small camera is needed. Cinema camera is for everything else.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

yes so you'd use it POV, not high speed... well high speed POV, great that's what it is for, and when you need cinema high speed you could rent a epic or phantom and you'd be set heck you could even rent or buy an fs700. I know a lot of people want that swiss army camera that can do everything, and we want every camera to be that, but the reality is that is not the way it works, epic alexa and f55 are getting very close but still not full swiss army cameras with every tool and feature under the sun. It's about picking the camera with the features you need and the compromises you can work around, nothing more really... well making sure it's within your price bracket is also rather important.

 

[Josh Snyder]

yes so you'd use it POV, not high speed... well high speed POV, great that's what it is for, and when you need cinema high speed you could rent a epic or phantom and you'd be set heck you could even rent or buy an fs700.

That's what I've been saying. Neither BMC or Scarlet is up to the job. But if I only could choose BMC, Scarlet or Gopro to shoot 120fps I would choose Gopro because it has best resolution at that frame rate.

 

[James_Mills]

That's what I've been saying. Neither BMC or Scarlet is up to the job. But if I only could choose BMC, Scarlet or Gopro to shoot 120fps I would choose Gopro because it has best resolution at that frame rate.

He equivocates from claiming that resolution doesn't matter and that "it's all about how it looks" (ie skintones and dynamic range) to claiming he'd prefer shooting a 120fps scene with a GoPro3 than a Scarlet simply because it's at a better resolution (and this is what he "normally shoots").

This is exactly what I meant when I said "putting him in his place", Peter. His opinions, or arguments rather, just don't make sense. They even contradict his own "analyses".