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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Scarlet vs BMC

Donnie King said:
I did get a chance to play around with the BMCC clips and I was very impressed as well. I guess in my case as far a purchase, I would be very upset if Team Red decided not to offer an upgrade path from the MX sensor to the Dragon. That is why I chose the Scarlet X because I thought it would be future proof, but I have heard some rumors that this upgrade path may only be for the Epic. If so not cool.:frown5:
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I wouldn't worry, although being a RED owner can be stressful, they will look after us one way or another. Jim has stated that Scarlet owners will have options :)
 
RED has never and will never turn it's back on it's customers. Jim has stated this repeatedly throughout the years and his words have always stuck. He'll make sure there will be a Dragon path for Scarlet owners... no doubt about it.
 
" As to the BMCC being more "cinematic". Sure, if David Mullen or Don McAlpine is shooting with it. Probably.

Sorry it's just such a silly statement."


You really want to go there? So between sensors and camera systems there's simply no difference in how cinematic the image turns out, huh? Camera is irrelevant. Wow.

Might as well defer to Roger Deakins who evaluated your camera, found it lacking and not cinematic enough for his taste. Conversely, he found the Alexa much more to his liking. Can't say I disagree with anything he said on the matter.

I'll quit. Stew in your own "silly" preconceptions.
 
Joe G. said:
" You really want to go there? So between sensors and camera systems there's simply no difference in how cinematic the image turns out, huh? Camera is irrelevant. Wow.
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It's not that the camera doesn't matter, but the fact that BMC HAS ONLY BEEN RELEASED TO A SELECT FEW. The footage online is from people Blackmagic chose to make the look the camera look as good as possible - and it's being compared to Scarlet footage shot by users with a wide range of experience. Either camera, in the hands of a great DP, will produce amazing images. As for which one is MORE cinematic, I think we'll have to wait and see until BMCs are in real use - but it's specs already put it at a serious disadvantage. If that's made up for by enhanced skin tones or something of the like, great - but there's no way to know if that's the case just yet.
 
Joe G. said:
" As to the BMCC being more "cinematic". Sure, if David Mullen or Don McAlpine is shooting with it. Probably.

Sorry it's just such a silly statement."


You really want to go there? So between sensors and camera systems there's simply no difference in how cinematic the image turns out, huh? Camera is irrelevant. Wow.

Might as well defer to Roger Deakins who evaluated your camera, found it lacking and not cinematic enough for his taste. Conversely, he found the Alexa much more to his liking. Can't say I disagree with anything he said on the matter.

I'll quit. Stew in your own "silly" preconceptions.
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Joe, you're extrapolating needlessly, and I think a bit aggressively. You're also clearly mis reading.

At no point did, or would I, say that the camera is irrelevant. I think like many other things, it is an important part of producing "cinematic " images. My point is a very simple one; That a lot of thing make images "cinematic". That the Scarlet and BMCC are clearly both capable of producing great "cinematic" images. And that arguing this one way or the other about two "RAW" cameras with great dynamic range is yes, in my opinion, pretty silly. Or if people find that offensive, I'm sorry, I don't know, naive, pointless?

I've actually read many people over the last 6 months make arguments against the cinematic possibility of the BMCC because of it's smaller sensor size. I don't share this opinion. Sensor size is an important factor, but it's still only one factor. And for me films like Black swan or 28 Days later are very "cinematic". But yes, I do take some issue with the notion this camera is more "cinematic" than yours stuff (which is being thrown around a lot over the web) simply because there are so many elements involved in making an image "cinematic". Personally I would rather have a talented DOP shoot my film with 3 GH2's, than an inexperienced shooter with an F65, an Alexa, and an Epic.

Camera wise, for me it's just about having a camera that has the "potential" to produce very "Cinematic" images" and even that statement is highly subjective to creative talent and the interpretation of ideas, mood, story etc... And also it's subject to the need at hand. If you need to put a camera on someones helmet, it obviously doesn't matter how much more cinematic you think the Alexa's roll off is going to be.

Also just for the record, because I think this is what your implying? I never ever slag off other cameras. Perhaps because I'm older than some, I'm thoroughly blown away by how wonderful so many of these cameras are these days, and for the price point, I think we are all amazingly spoilt and I'm usually on sites posting along this line, when people start slagging one camera over another. And RED seems to be a pretty popular target.

If this is not what your saying, sorry mate, I apologise, but otherwise I have no idea what Roger Deakins preferring the Alexa has to do with my post?

Kind Regards,

Lliam

Mike,

Thanks for your advice. I'll look at making a few amendments. I was still thinking that the RAW workflow has some issues. What are your thoughts on uncompressed vs REDcode? Also as I understand it right now, "the BMCC doesn’t give you any way to know whether you’ve got 20 minutes left in RAW or an hour left in ProRes or DNxHD" when recording...

Also just wanted to add, I wasn't "trying to make lists to impress others who don't feel the same way." People are free to believe as they wish. As the threads titled Scarlet vs BMCC, just voicing my opinion (With a pre cursor as to how great I still thought the BMCC was) and then just tried to clearly list the points I felt backed up my viewpoint. But I do have an open mind and I'm always happy to change when learning otherwise.

That said, I really don't think I'll bother posting anymore in threads like this. I most often refrain, and spend far more time on RED and other forums just reading and staying out of discussions and threads where I can see no good coming of it... but as per Joe's post, someone always seems to take exception these days, which is just more affirmation for me that it really is best just to go along without engaging.

Best

Lliam
 
Got my hands on both of these cameras last weekend. Made a few videos and will be uploading them soon!

P.S. Scarlet wins..... Can't even compare. Apples and Oranges! :]
 
Jared Knecht said:
P.S. Scarlet wins..... Can't even compare. Apples and Oranges! :]
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That's a bold statement! I've played with RAW files from the BMCC and they most definitely can be compared to the Scarlet's images - at 2k, and up-rezzed from 2.5k to 4K. I'm talking about the image alone here....not the camera body.
 
Jared Knecht said:
Got my hands on both of these cameras last weekend. Made a few videos and will be uploading them soon!

P.S. Scarlet wins..... Can't even compare. Apples and Oranges! :]
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I totally agree here with you on this, I was able to make my own personal comparison.......and there is NO COMPARISON! The RED is so much more evolved and superior
 
i liked the BMC's image alot better. Better DR, better color rendition. Only thing i didnt like was the rolling shutter.

Debayered, the scarlet's resolution is only 3.2k. That's not far from BMC's 2.5k anyway.
 
Roger Valdes said:
i liked the BMC's image alot better. Only thing i didnt like was the rolling shutter.

Debayered, the scarlet's resolution is only 3.2k. That's not far from BMC's 2.5k anyway.
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The BMCC's sensor is a bayer pattern sensor too, if the Scarlets not 4k then the BMCC isnt 2.5k......
 
Well, the scary thing then is that a Scarlet ready to shoot is over 15K and the BMCC i 5K. I really hope that RED does something about this because wherever I talk to people they actually compare the RED SCARLET to the BMCC, so the BMCC is directly competing with the Scarlet when people decide whether to buy it or not. Whoever thinks that the BMCC does not affect Red Scarlet sales is clearly lying to themselves.

...and why is it so that I feel that the RED ONE MX is superior to the BMCC with 4.5 widescreen and 120fps, but I do not feel the same with the Scarlet? Am I the only one that has this feeling?
 
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Robert Wauu said:
Well, the scary thing then is that a Scarlet ready to shoot is over 15K and the BMCC i 5K. I really hope that RED does something about this because wherever I talk to people they actually compare the RED SCARLET to the BMCC, so the BMCC is directly competing with the Scarlet when people decide whether to buy it or not. Whoever thinks that the BMCC does not affect Red Scarlet sales is clearly lying to themselves.

...and why is it so that I feel that the RED ONE MX is superior to the BMCC with 4.5 widescreen and 120fps, but I do not feel the same with the Scarlet? Am I the only one that has this feeling?
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You are right. Red One MX is superior, Scarlet is not.
 
Robert Wauu said:
Well, the scary thing then is that a Scarlet ready to shoot is over 15K and the BMCC i 5K. I really hope that RED does something about this because wherever I talk to people they actually compare the RED SCARLET to the BMCC, so the BMCC is directly competing with the Scarlet when people decide whether to buy it or not. Whoever thinks that the BMCC does not affect Red Scarlet sales is clearly lying to themselves.

...and why is it so that I feel that the RED ONE MX is superior to the BMCC with 4.5 widescreen and 120fps, but I do not feel the same with the Scarlet? Am I the only one that has this feeling?
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One way to determine if anyone else disagrees with you would be to put your used Scarlet on the market for the cost of the BMCC and see how long it takes to sell it. :-)
 
Robert Wauu said:
Well, the scary thing then is that a Scarlet ready to shoot is over 15K and the BMCC i 5K. I really hope that RED does something about this because wherever I talk to people they actually compare the RED SCARLET to the BMCC, so the BMCC is directly competing with the Scarlet when people decide whether to buy it or not. Whoever thinks that the BMCC does not affect Red Scarlet sales is clearly lying to themselves.

...and why is it so that I feel that the RED ONE MX is superior to the BMCC with 4.5 widescreen and 120fps, but I do not feel the same with the Scarlet? Am I the only one that has this feeling?
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Yup. cancelled my BT Scarlet for a BT Red One
 
Scott Crawley said:
One way to determine if anyone else disagrees with you would be to put your used Scarlet on the market for the cost of the BMCC and see how long it takes to sell it. :-)
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LOL!

Im wating ;)
 
Robert Wauu said:
Don't be so sure it will sell more than the BMCC even at the same price. Don't be so sure :)
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You misunderstand me. What I was suggesting in my round about way is that there are plenty who would disagree with you, and if they had the opportunity to choose between the two cameras for the same cost, they would choose the Scarlet. That would also give you the opportunity to get out of your camera and into the one you apparently prefer. You could also view it as a challenge to put your money where your mouth is.

I don't think sales metrics are an indicator of which camera is better overall, and I don't think that specs alone are determine which camera is best for each person. There are many reasons why the BMCC camera will be a better fit for one person, and the Scarlet better for others. You go with what fits you best but I would caution you; If you are unhappy with the results you are getting from Scarlet and as a result you believe that it must therefore be an inferior camera, you would be mistaken. You could easily find yourself in a vicious circle of throwing money at camera after camera, each time expecting that the camera is what is going to give you better results. Your Scarlet does enable you to make top quality motion pictures and you will get out of it what you put in. I don't think the BMCC by virtue of what it is, can better enable you.

If you are looking closely I just stated "I don't think" many times. Clearly these are my opinions. Take them for what they are worth to you.
 
Lets not forget that the Scarlet is the Gateway drug to EPIC ;)
 
Guys I'm not bashing on the Scarlet and loving the BMCC. I have actually both ordered from RED and the BMCC. What I want and really do hope is that there will be something in there for the Scarlet-X with the Dragon and the new build. I do not think RED will just sit there and wait for a 3000 dollar camera to steal their Scarlet-X sales. I'm sure they are having a plan as of right now....

Scott I misunderstood you, that's why I removed the comment, but you got it earlier than I could remove it, so yes I agree with you :)
 
I still think this argument is moot.
Not close in terms of use in my books.
But I can honestly say that the BMCC is one of a kind.
Even more so since its rare to find.
The frames I've witnessed online are amazing but some options are lacking and for some of us the extra cash towards the Scarlet makes good sense.
The gear I've accumulated for the Scarlet works towards a future EPIC.
 
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