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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Scarlet vs BMC

Vladimir Druts said:
I'm 100% going to get a BMC as a B-cam for my scarlet..
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originally this was my plan as well but with the current workflow with the Scarlet, I honestly don't think I'm doing that now.
If anything Ill be turning the Scarlet into the B-cam in the future.

I just think about the resources and hardware I have to deal with when it comes to having two different types of tech in the field.

I don't have enough experience with one never mind two.
 
M Most said:
Cinema DNG is an open format that was developed by, yes, Adobe. As such, it already has Adobe support and wider support is to be expected.

As I said, Scarlet is a superior product to the BM camera in a lot of ways. But if you're going to start making lists to impress others who don't feel that way, I would leave the above referenced "advantages" off that list.
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Cinema DNG support in Premire Pros current version is at best dire and most accurately describable as non-existent. R3D is far better supported in adobes own NLE than a file format they helped develop.
 
Michel Rabe said:
geez, all I'm saying is that CinemaDNG is a clumsy option for recording/dumping/backup/editing raw video workflow.
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Then shoot in ProRes ... Just found this shot in prores with a cheap Tamron zoom. I'm guessing its not graded.


... and this is raw

 
Vladimir Druts said:
I'm 100% going to get a BMC as a B-cam for my scarlet..
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+1 - with condition, it will be the v2.0 BMCC :) I want BM first camera to go thru some hoops before I jump into the frey :)
 
I think it goes without saying that there is some bias on this forum so lets put a couple things in perspective:

1. CinemaDNG - The detail you get from this is amazing and you can easily transcode to cineformRAW to bring the file size down to about 1/10 the original size without any visible quality loss

2. "BMCC doesn't exist yet" - Yes it does. It is trickling out slowly but people are getting their cameras albeit 9 months after the camera was announced and about 6 months later than promised. RED announced and was talking about the scarlet for 3 YEARS before the camera was available and they never even released it....(don't jump on me just yet)...I know that you can buy a scarlet in the store but to be honest its not anything like the product they talked about. It almost seems as if they worked on it for 3 years, couldn't make a marketable product and then just said f**k it we will sell a cheaper less powerful epic. People will say that they are giving you are getting something even better in the current version but I for one was really looking forward to using 16mm film zooms and $950 1.4 mini primes on a 2/3" cinema at 3k120fps. I foolishly enough bought lenses anticipating this camera coming out and when it didn't I had to purge the lens quiver and start over.

3. 4k vs 2.5k - There is something to be said regarding the fact that the only place most people will see 4k is in a theater. Yes sony and red have announced their 4k players but there simply isnt the network, available products, or homes with 4k TV's at this time and probably wont be until 4k screens start dipping under the $1000 price point. If you purchase a scarlet now you are saving yourself the trouble of having to buy a completely new camera system when 4k becomes standard, but to be honest when that happens there will be cameras far better than the current scarlet at a cheaper price point. 4k has the advantage no doubt but the resolution of our TV and computer screens is an equalizer

4. Lenses - Super16mm zooms and primes could easily be adapted to the black magic sensor through the use of a 1.4x extender. If I am not mistaken the Angenieux 28-340 is more or less a 24-290 with an extender added to it internally to allow it to be used on the epic at 5k. Companies like voigtlander and slr magic are stepping up their game as well with lenses like 12mm 1.6, 17 .95, 25mm .95, 35mm .95, and 50mm .95. Anything past that and you could just use normal primes.

5. Frame Rate - Scarlet has 4k at normal frame rates through 2k 60p and 1k 120p. For the same price as an outfitted scarlet you could get an fs700 for frame rates and a bmc for dynamic range and your slow motion will be better than the scarlet at the same resolution.

6. Price (monitor, media module, brain, canon lens mount, control, 1 hour battery) - BMC $3000, Scarlet $15000


TO BE 100% CLEAR - I THINK THE SCARLET IS A BETTER CAMERA. I just don't think its as ridiculous to compare the two as some of you think.
 
Peter Osinski said:

TO BE 100% CLEAR - I THINK THE SCARLET IS A BETTER CAMERA. I just don't think its as ridiculous to compare the two as some of you think.
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Just from reading your post its a given that these two should never be in the same breath.

But most knew about that months ago.

I sat on the BMCC waiting train since early June.

So glad the BT Scarlets came out.

Sanity restored.
 
Eric Santiago said:
Just from reading your post its a given that these two should never be in the same breath.

But most knew about that months ago.
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I'm not sure I follow you. How does my post say that at all? I think its a valid comparison especially for people who might be stretching for the scarlet vs getting bmc plus some other gear
 
Here's my opinion, ...It all depends on what the client is asking for "if" there is a client. Where the footage will end up and even if its YouTube, is up to the producers making it. RED cameras and other cameras have their own fans. Its like beauty and women, its in the eyes of the beholder. Since opinions vary, we can't argue color (thats also opinion) What we can say without a doubt is R3D files or filming in 4K DOES allow you to be a little less critical on set with certain settings and offer a much wider gamut of options in post!! Thats a Fact, right!! The other mitigating circumstance is that NOT everyone is in the same financial brackets, hence the competition. I think you should choose your camera kind of the same way a soldier would choose his weapon...there are some better than others depending on the mission. Your film and set and environment also come into play with the decision to use gear and cameras. THINK ABOUT IT!!
 
Peter Osinski said:
I'm not sure I follow you. How does my post say that at all? I think its a valid comparison especially for people who might be stretching for the scarlet vs getting bmc plus some other gear
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well you kinda brought the Scarlet history in there for one thing.
Isnt that moot at this point?
Im confused with your reasoning.
Like I said, its not the same IMHO.
 
I have worked with both cameras. Both have their strenghts and quirks. And neither one is 'better' in my opinion.
Both have their place

BMC
Overall picture quality / Color rendition
Skintones
Price/value

Red
Resolution
Modularity / options
Build quality

unless you REALLY need 4k, go for the BMC (whenever they fix their delivery stuff)
 
I am less interested in how this BMC cam compares to Scarlet and more concerned about what BMC's follow up will be.
 
dammit, i was so busy in nov i never heard about it.
how much did they go for?
 
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I chose my Scarlet X over BMC in hopes of a path to the dragon sensor upgrade in the near future. I also hope Team Red will give some type of great features in the new update 4.0 firmware. The Scarlet cost almost 3times more than the BMC so I don't think it should even be close in image comparison honestly. Nevertheless, I'm a newbie to shooting raw, so what do I know! I'm totally satisfied with my purchase and I can't wait to see what extras Team Red has in to offer for the Scarlet X!!!!
 
Donnie King said:
The Scarlet cost almost 3times more than the BMC so I don't think it should even be close in image comparison honestly.
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Image comparison is the one place it CAN compete. I love my Scarlet, don't get me wrong, but after playing with some RAW clips from the BMCC, I was blown away. Easily just as good, if not better (colour) than my scarlet. But like Vlad said above, it's no modular, mega-pixel monster....more of pocket cam that if you can get around it's build quirks, can produce comparable 2k images to a RED.
 
I did get a chance to play around with the BMCC clips and I was very impressed as well. I guess in my case as far a purchase, I would be very upset if Team Red decided not to offer an upgrade path from the MX sensor to the Dragon. That is why I chose the Scarlet X because I thought it would be future proof, but I have heard some rumors that this upgrade path may only be for the Epic. If so not cool.:frown5:
 
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