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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Scarlet vs BMC

The Scarlet is my FF rig. I use the 5D for pickups and crash cam style rigs... and I'm a sucker for playing with new toys. The crop factor doesn't bother me as much as the rolling shutter on the rigs. I'm hoping the rolling shutter on the BMC is a little better than the 5D and 7D rigs. If so, then I made a great decision for my style of work.
 
Dane Henry said:
This is a weird comparison...why would you?
...
Not trying to offend...just confused by the thread topic.
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You're not alone. ;) That comparison just doesn't make sense. I also agree it's not easy to compare the BMCC to DSLRs and S35-videocams too, because of that huge crop-factor and lens-dilemma. Thats the biggest weakness of the BMCC, its hard to get around that.
 
See, the sensor size doesn't bother me as much. The widest I work with/shoot with on Epic is 16mm or 18mm - anything wider would be a specialty lens. On the BMC, this works out to be around 11mm for an equivalent AOV. For the EF version, the Tokina fits very nicely in there, and is reasonably fast at 2.8. For the MFT version, I'm sure there's even wider options, including faster primes.

I think the whole "you can't shoot wide with the BMCC" thing is just blown out of proportion. Now the lack of an OLPF could be either a huge or minor issue - we shall see.
 
Rodrigo Prata said:
a 24-70 (on a Scarlet) equivalente would actually be a 17-50, not a 11-16...
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The two lenses do not have the same FOV correct. In doing my research it became obvious to me that I would have to be happy with the 11-16 for my short zoom.

Since the 17-50 is the normal short zoom for super 35/aps-c how could it possibly be considered the normal short zoom for a sensor so much smaller? Would you be happy with a 17-50mm for your short zoom/utility lens on the BMC? I would not. And for the superwide shots that I use the 11-16 for now what lens would you use? F/4 I suppose.

I suppose the 24 1.4 would be a good goto lens. Maybe I would get used to it. I tend to think it would get annoying with so few lenses to actually choose from.
 
I think that, specs aside, this camera is a good engineering showpiece. It does not resemble a camera in the least and it will be a b*tch to operate. Rig it up to usefulness and you will have paid for a SCARLET.
It´s like buying a disease and the medication at the same time: finder, bigger batteries, rig (I fail to understand how anyone could hand-hold this thing without an additional VF), FF gear for (which?) lenses, no usable zoom to speak of ... etc etc
Even bringing out a dumb 4/3 mount version is not going to improve things much. You could mount S16 lenses (wide zooms) , but you´d have to crop in post.

just my 0,02 euros.
 
peter roehsler said:
i think that, specs aside, this camera is a good engineering showpiece. It does not resemble a camera in the least and it will be a b*tch to operate. Rig it up to usefulness and you will have paid a SCARLET.
It´s like buying a disease and the medication at the same: finder, bigger batteries, rig (I fail o understand how anyone could hand-hold this thing without an additional VF), FF gear for (which?) lenses, no usable zoom to speak of ... etc etc
Even bringing out a dumb 4/3 mount version is not going to improve things much. You could mount S16 lenses (wide zooms) , but you´d have to crop in post.

just my 0,02 euros.
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To be fair, those are all things you'd have to buy for a Scarlet (EVF/LCD, batteries, rigging).
 
I currently have a BMCC and 2 Epics. They are not competitive cameras in the larger sense.

The BMCC makes an incredibly good image for what seems to be a fast tracked product for Blackmagic who has never made a camera before.
The 2.5K DNG Raw is really nice to work with as are the Log ProResHQ files. Is it an Epic? NO. Can it be a great B-Cam on a project? alongside any other camera Absolutely.
When the passive MFT version comes out in december and you can amortize your lenses across multiple cameras and realize actual wides and have more lens options it will lock the BMCC in as a suitable camera for the quiver.

given the price point and that it also includes a $1000 piece of software I feel like BMD is basically daring you not to buy it.

RED have nothing to worry about as far as market share or buyer poaching in my mind as they are very different beasts even at the Scarlet level. Whatever larger sensor more advanced camera BMD drop at NAB 2013 who knows, but it would only be a logical assumption they're working on it as are RED so we all win.

Needless to say the BMCC is a perfect A-Cam for many projects based on scope/budget and needs of the production. It certainly blows the 5D2 out of the water on many points.
 
Kevin Marshall said:
To be fair, those are all things you'd have to buy for a Scarlet (EVF/LCD, batteries, rigging).
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You are certainly right, but by getting a SCARLET you are buying into system while fitting out the BMC you end up dealing with xx different manufacturers. Some people may call this freedom of choice, I´d call it investing a lot of time for finding the right components. (Besides that a BMC system will then feel like different pieces screwed together - more like a makeshift piece of equipment, read DSLR rigs etc).
 
I saw a quick and informal comparison on a Baselight today (next to Alexa footage we had shot for a commercial) and the Black Magic looked pretty f-ing awesome. There were huge sighs of relief that it would end up filling the position of the 5D. Never a question that it could touch Alexa (or Epic) though.
 
peter roehsler said:
You are certainly right, but by getting a SCARLET you are buying into system while fitting out the BMC you end up dealing with xx different manufacturers. Some people may call this freedom of choice, I´d call it investing a lot of time for finding the right components. (Besides that a BMC system will then feel like different pieces screwed together - more like a makeshift piece of equipment, read DSLR rigs etc).
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I disagree. With the exception of the top plate/base plate and the 5 inch touchscreen, none of the accessories used on the Epic/Scarlet packages I support are Red-specific, and could easily be used on a BMCC. TVLogic, V-Mount batteries, EasyRig, follow focuses, matte boxes...I just don't see how you would need to buy more accessories for the BMCC than you would for an Epic or a Scarlet. Ergonomically, they're all pretty much sensors in boxes with a couple 1/4"-20s on top.
 
Dylan Macleod said:
I saw a quick and informal comparison on a Baselight today (next to Alexa footage we had shot for a commercial) and the Black Magic looked pretty f-ing awesome. There were huge sighs of relief that it would end up filling the position of the 5D. Never a question that it could touch Alexa (or Epic) though.
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Dylan, maybe it's the Canadian accent, LOL, but I can't tell from this if you think the BMC's image can approach those of an Alexa, Epic and Scarlet or not?
 
The above link ^^^^^^ is definitely a better 'match up' than the title of this thread.
 
James McLellan said:
The two lenses do not have the same FOV correct. In doing my research it became obvious to me that I would have to be happy with the 11-16 for my short zoom.

Since the 17-50 is the normal short zoom for super 35/aps-c how could it possibly be considered the normal short zoom for a sensor so much smaller? Would you be happy with a 17-50mm for your short zoom/utility lens on the BMC? I would not. And for the superwide shots that I use the 11-16 for now what lens would you use? F/4 I suppose.



I suppose the 24 1.4 would be a good goto lens. Maybe I would get used to it. I tend to think it would get annoying with so few lenses to actually choose from.
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Hi James,

I`m not sure I understood your point, but my point is that based on my math (that the BMCC has more or less a 1.4 crop factor in relation to a Scarlet) a 24-70 lens on a Scarlet has more or less the same FOV then a 17-50 lens on a BMCC.

If that is wide enough is a hole other issue, but I`ve done a lot of work on a 7D (and recently on my Scarlet :) ) with just a 24-70, so for many situation I believe that a 17-50 could be wide enough, although I would not buy this camera without buying a 11-16 together...
 
Terrible raw workflow with BMC and tons of storage needed. For Prores shooting great though I guess.
 
I wouldn't quite call the RAW workflow terrible.. It's quite easy to get it into AE and grade, then back to Premiere for instance. It does take storage though but wow that image. Just wow.
 
Plus isn't CinemaDNG's raw controls more akin to stills raw controls?

And who are we kidding, terabytes are pretty cheap these days; I bet the money saved by using non-proprietary SSDs would more than afford you the difference in HDD space needed to store said footage. Plus there'd be no compression related issues (in low-light or high detail scenes).

The only reason I didn't bother with the BMCC is the crop factor was a little too much for my taste (the same reason I never really got into m4:3)
 
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