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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED SCARLET & CANON c300

Josh Snyder said:
Gregory, 120fps 1K is JOKE! No one should use it and I have no idea why RED even included it since they believe 4K is the lowest people should shoot to keep the footage future proof. You understand that 1K is smaller than 720p? and you understand that the 1K is cropped from the center of the image? 1K is way too small resolution to shoot these days and sorry to say this 1K from Scarlet looks really bad. If you need 120fps these two camers aren't for you.
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I agree. Plus 60fps slowed down to 24fps still looks great.

Also,
How often are you going to shoot 120fps anyway? I'm actually glad that Scarlet can't do the high frame rates. I'm already getting sick of all the Slo Mo Epic footage that's being shot. Slo Mo everything is the next super shallow DoF. So played out. Hey guess what... there are other aperture settings on the lens besides wide open!!!!
 
Agreed 1k 120fps is useless. I would be more likely to use an optical flow retimer with 2k footage. The bugs aren't really visible in smoke passes etc.

I would go with a Wooden Camera/GMP battery setup too. So far I like it better than Viewfactor's mount.

One nice thing about Scarlet is that you can grow into it. Today you can spend $350 on a Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle and shoot hours upon hours of 1080p DNxHD. In a few months after a couple jobs you can buy a couple SSDs and shoot RAW simultaneously. Etc...
 
Just plan your shoot well, shoot 60p and use twixtor to get the slow motion. Works well most of the time.
 
don't buy C300 in any case,
there is FS100, there is F3 and end of June there will be FS700, $10K, 240fps @ 1080,
but man, they all suck, well, let's say most of them not even close compare to R3Ds from any RED camera,
and i am not RED fanboy;
 
The main reason not to buy Canon is that 6 months after you buy a camera from them they release a new camera for a few grand more that does just a little bit more than your current camera.
 
Yes, I have heard from multiple sources why not to get the Canon c300, and I've heard from others on why not to get the RED SCARLET. The consensus on why not to get the RED SCARLET from others is the cost and again the cost. I've heard from others saying stay away from Canon because the codec sucks. Ultimately it's going to have to be what's easier for me at this time. Shooting RAW is awesome, shooting 2K,4K, 24K is awesome, but again I believe that we are 3+ years away from even seeing 2K or 4K on broadcast networks.
 
Gregory Dillard said:
Yes, I have heard from multiple sources why not to get the Canon c300, and I've heard from others on why not to get the RED SCARLET. The consensus on why not to get the RED SCARLET from others is the cost and again the cost. I've heard from others saying stay away from Canon because the codec sucks. Ultimately it's going to have to be what's easier for me at this time. Shooting RAW is awesome, shooting 2K,4K, 24K is awesome, but again I believe that we are 3+ years away from even seeing 2K or 4K on broadcast networks.
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You know what's awesome? Covering corporate video interviews with a wide and close-up at the same time from the same camera. Huge time saver, and makes editing way easier. Just cut the best stuff together, then cover the edits by punching in every other shot. Can't do that with a 1080p camera.
 
Yep. Great for stage (theater and such) too.
 
Gabe Conroy said:
You know what's awesome? Covering corporate video interviews with a wide and close-up at the same time from the same camera. Huge time saver, and makes editing way easier. Just cut the best stuff together, then cover the edits by punching in every other shot. Can't do that with a 1080p camera.
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I just finished a bunch of videos for Campbells soup. Shooting 4K was critical for reframing.
 
If I had your budget, I would go Canon or Sony F3. Scarlet will cost way more than you think. The long path of Red is an investment. Canon is ready to shoot and cut out of the box. Make money with that camera and upgrade to something better when you need. No sense in future proofing today when all you need for your clients is 1080. If your clients want Red and like the name that comes with it, find more money. Simple.
 
May I suggest waiting for the Sony FS700? The 1080p framerates seem to be off the chart for it's assumed price.

Granted, there is nothing like working in RAW. The little bit I have shot, I fell in love with it.

Also wait until the next Firmware release of the Scarlet. Who knows what RED has up their sleeve. (I have been shouting for a 1.5K @ 96 fps, it would be great for 720p work. Maybe? Or higher?)
 
What a great thread. I've been in the same dilemma. I've come to this conclusion. If you are looking for broadcast go with the C300. The images are the best of the 1080p cameras I have seen. The BBC just approved it for their broadcast format. But if anywhere in your repertoire you are pursuing narrative film then head for Red. Don't compromise. Rent or buy. The images from EPIC and Scarlet are the closest I've seen to film to date. Where I'm on the fence is the Dragon sensor. Buy now and upgrade or wait. Unless someone tells me otherwise I will probably rent for now and then buy a scarlet dragon when it arrives. The upgrade path is going to be costly. I've heard $6000 or more. And scarlet dragon is around the corner. Also, anybody heard if the sensors will be EPIC rejects that will be going in Scarlets? I am hoping QC is being ramped up or maybe making sensors is always going to result in levels not acceptable for an EPIC.
 
Daniel Meador said:
What a great thread. I've been in the same dilemma. I've come to this conclusion. If you are looking for broadcast go with the C300. The images are the best of the 1080p cameras I have seen. The BBC just approved it for their broadcast format. But if anywhere in your repertoire you are pursuing narrative film then head for Red. Don't compromise. Rent or buy. The images from EPIC and Scarlet are the closest I've seen to film to date. Where I'm on the fence is the Dragon sensor. Buy now and upgrade or wait. Unless someone tells me otherwise I will probably rent for now and then buy a scarlet dragon when it arrives. The upgrade path is going to be costly. I've heard $6000 or more. And scarlet dragon is around the corner. Also, anybody heard if the sensors will be EPIC rejects that will be going in Scarlets? I am hoping QC is being ramped up or maybe making sensors is always going to result in levels not acceptable for an EPIC.
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Dragon won't hit for Scarlet until 2013. Also, when it does, you won't just be able to purchase a Scarlet at the current price but with a Dragon sensor. So if you're only holding off now so as to save that cost later, then you're going to be disappointed.

We have a C300 at work, I own a Scarlet at home. I'm . . . not a fan of the C300. It's nice. It's not $20,000 nice. Maybe $10,000 nice. Maybe. It's great for fast setups. It's pretty damn good in low light. And maybe it's just that since the body is made of plastic, I don't like the feel of it (having worked in a machine shop all through college, certain products are forever spoiled for me just because of the choice of materials).

But I think it's pretty odd that no one has picked up on the following: The C300 costs as much as a Scarlet. The C500 costs as much as an Epic, but has specs that (I would argue) only come close to Scarlet, and don't match it. Sooooo pay for an Epic body, get something not-as-good as a Scarlet. Pretty odd lineup from Canon.

It also irks me that the files that come out of the C300 are amazingly difficult to work with. If you don't place the files onto a SPECIFIC location on your hard drive (and not on a NAS; has to be on an internal drive), then the XF Utility, and Final Cut, refuse to acknowledge them. When you shoot with this thing multiple times a week, it becomes rather clunky to have to keep all your C300 files in one location, rather than with their respected projects. I don't know why it's like that, but it is. That alone makes me not want to deal with the files in post. I really want to pull Canon's software engineers aside and wag their noses in it, like a bad dog that made a mess in the house. The way the files need to be managed in order for Canon's own software to acknowledge their existence is a Post/Archiving nightmare.
 
Japanese software has always been a bald inducing process to use...that's interesting about the c300 ingest path.
 
Mark Kern said:
Japanese software has always been a bald inducing process to use...that's interesting about the c300 ingest path.
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If the CF Card is plugged in, the files pop right up. But if you back up the card contents (like you should) then they have to be in the one folder that XF Utility is told to acknowledge in order for them to be useable.

Which is OK (but not preferable) for a single person working. It's hell for a rotating cast of full-time and freelance workers on 20 workstations connected to a NAS.
 
Nick Pasquariello said:
It also irks me that the files that come out of the C300 are amazingly difficult to work with.
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The files open instantaneously in Avid and Adobe without transcoding plus the native codec is extremely robust and great for grading. It's not RAW, it's not 4K, but it has very good dynamic range and is particularly good in low light. Throw in it's excellent build quality, cheap flash media and batteries that last for hours, then it suddenly looks like a very good choice for 1080 doco or promo shooting. I used it in extreme conditions on a Royal Navy shoot last week, the camera performed flawlessly - Scarlet simply would have been the wrong choice for that job. This weeks job is another matter and Epic fits bill...
 
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