RED SCARLET & CANON c300

[Gregory Dillard]

Hello everyone and I need some help before a purchase. I had my mind and budget set on the Canon c300. Although Im still a little confused as why Canon didnt put 120fps in that camera for that price. I'm sure that all will chime in and blast them . After doing some research the SCARLET has intrigued me. Not so much the whole 2K,4K but rather the look and the 120fps at 1K I believe. What may not allow me to purchase this camera as its too customizable that would force me over the $16K budget . With a c300 I already own CANON & ZEISS glass, so all I need are just additional CF Cards. With the SCARLET I need all this other stuff that will drive me over my budget. I'm asking for some help as I my assumption maybe incorrect. Thanks to anyone in advance that can help.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Tough call. I'd add the Red One into the equation as well unless the bootup time and possibly the form factor are a problem for you. There are some full shooting packages that have listed in your budget range here on Reduser. 120fps at 2K.

C300 is a good camera. If it does everything you need it to and you've done your own tests to prove that to yourself, then that's okay. I do think Scarlet is a better investment at this point, especially now that we know that it will qualify for Dragon upgrade. But if it's out of your price range, it may be a moot point. Either way, I'm sure you'll be okay. Both high quality cameras. What kind of projects do you do?

 

[Mark Kern]

Resolution may not matter to you now, but it will once you start shooting 4k and the stuff at NAB and CES for 4k displays start hitting consumers. But let's assume for a moment that you really aren't interested in the Scarlets 4k resolution or upcoming upgrade to 6k Dragon sensor (Canon does not offer an upgrade path, btw).

You said you were attracted to the Scarlet for the 120fps @1k. This isn't out yet (as far as I know, mine does not have it yet). I've shot 48fps @3k and with a high shutter speed, feel like I can get some good results using software like Twixtor to get even slower. Most of the time, you are never using high-speed/slo-mo. But if you are using it, I would not say the Scarlet is superior here (yet), but it isn't a negative either.

You asked about price. Scarlet-X comes in an aluminum Canon Mount package with side handle, 2 REDvolt batteries, charger, 64GB SSD magazine, AC power, touch monitor and reader for $16,165. You don't need anything else to start shooting. You can use your Canon class and canon mount Zeiss glass right away. So, not sure why you feel you need to buy more to make it workable compared to a Canon C300.

The big thing you might consider that the RED shoots RAW. Even if you don't care about the resolution, you can't underestimate the power and convenience of RAW footage. Its like asking a professional still photographer to going back and shooting JPEG instead of RAW....it simply won't do for most of their work.

After the Dragon sensor announcement, I am SOOO glad I went Scarlet. In a year, I'll have 6k and high framerates that the competition won't be able to touch for another 3-4 years...just like they are struggling to catch up to 4k now.

EDIT: If you just want great non-raw 1080p, it can be a tough call for some, but the perception that RED needs all this other equipment to shoot is something I disagree with.

 

[Brian Pascale]

You can use your canon lenses on the Scarlet if you buy the canon mount. I don't believe that 120fps has been implemented yet. I bought a Scarlet, I think it is the better camera, but there is a larger learning curve, but also more flexibility. The greatest additional cost is the SSD for recording. And the Red Rocket for post, or you have to invest in a system that can handle 4k natively.

 

[Gregory Dillard]

Thank you Steve! I produce commercials, music videos, marketing videos, corporate, live events, shorts, etc. Unlike Canon RED has to have all of these things to function.

 

[Mark Kern]

I agree on the cost of media. It is more expensive, and you will probably end up needing to offload footage if you are doing a whole day shoot unless you buy more media.

I don't use a RED rocket at home. I am running the last generation iMac to edit and am doing fine so far. Premier Pro works great with raw RED footage and can play back without a RED rocket, which is pretty amazing. Just wish Premiere had redcolor3 supported already.

 

[Gregory Dillard]

Mark,
thats great news and thank you for clearing it up for me. So the SCARLET doesn't shoot 120fps @1K? How much time will I get out of those cards? I don't see shooting at 2K or 4K right now for the type of work that I do, but it LOOKS NICE!

 

[Bob Gundu]

Once you get a taste of working in RAW and 4K, there is no going back my friend.....

 

[Gregory Dillard]

Will the SCARLET work with the AJA KI PRO-mini or the newly announced KI PRO QUAD? Seems to me that could be an awesome solution.

 

[Noel R.]

Realistically I think you need more than 16K for an operational Scarlet. One 64 Gb SSD will only get you 25 minutes worth of footage. You will need at least one more SSD so you can dump your footage in between takes. You will also need more battery life. REDVOLTs have a span of about 25-30 min. I believe that package comes with two, and they take too long to charge in between takes so that won't work. I think the Scarlet is the better camera with the exception of low light performance. You can also upgrade it. Don't buy it because it can do 120 fps at 1K. 1K doesn't look that great and has an enormous crop factor. You probably wouldn't use it too often.

 

[Mark Kern]

Mark,
thats great news and thank you for clearing it up for me. So the SCARLET doesn't shoot 120fps @1K? How much time will I get out of those cards? I don't see shooting at 2K or 4K right now for the type of work that I do, but it LOOKS NICE!

Well, let's see. I use the iPhone app called KataData to calculate these things. If you shoot 29.97fps, 1080p at 8:1 compression (which is good for the work you describe), you should get 1.74 hours on the included 64GB card.

The thing is, you probably don't want to shoot 1080p on the Scarlet because you will be cropping the sensor. This means all your lenses focal lengths are going to more than double. You are better off shooting at 4K HD and downsampling in post, but now you are only getting 45 minutes per card with everything else equal to the above example.

 

[Gregory Dillard]

Thank you Noel. The more information that I'm receiving here is really determining the decision that I'm about to make. Now I feel like Anakin Skywalker fighting the "Dark Side!" :wink5:

 

[Mark Kern]

Thank you Noel. The more information that I'm receiving here is really determining the decision that I'm about to make. Now I feel like Anakin Skywalker fighting the "Dark Side!" :wink5:

Well...I will say this. If you need 16:9 fast 1080p turnaround, you'll be faster in post with the C300. Less steps, etc. But I know that *personally* after about a year on the C300 I will have regretted not going with the Scarlet because of the lack of upgrade path and RAW.

 

[Mark Kern]

Yep. The short battery life is a pain. So that's more $$$ right there. About $515 for two more REDvolts and an extra charger. You can keep a rotation going that way.

 

[Martin Weiss]

Battery life will be improved in future firmware upgrades (which are always free.)

If you know you'll be finishing in 1080 and don't need to crop in, you can use a high compression ratio to extend your recording times. RED will come out with cheaper media for the Scarlet.

One you get used to RAW workflow, you will never go back. Just one wrong WB on a h264 codec, and you're screwed. On RED that is only metadata.

Very helpful - and IMHO a much better long term investment.

 

[Ulf Krentz]

Yep. The short battery life is a pain. So that's more $$$ right there. About $515 for two more REDvolts and an extra charger. You can keep a rotation going that way.

You better calculate at least 6 Redvolts and 3 chargers to keep running.

Cheers, Ulf

 

[Mark Kern]

True...if you shoot an 8 hour continuous day. 6 and 3 is much better. I barely made a fast 8 hour day with 6 and 2 chargers.

 

[Martin Weiss]

Or you can go the V-lock battery route. Gives most bang, err, watt-hours for the buck. And you can use those batteries on monitors, LED lamps, and more. Really depends what is most important to you - portability and few cables, or price and longer running times.

 

[Mark Kern]

Or you can go the V-lock battery route. Gives most bang, err, watt-hours for the buck. And you can use those batteries on monitors, LED lamps, and more. Really depends what is most important to you - portability and few cables, or price and longer running times.

I was thinking of that. Using the Belt clip ($300 or so) and getting 3rd party Vmount batteries. Do the 3rd party batteries void your warranty?

 

[Mike Tiffee]

So the SCARLET doesn't shoot 120fps @1K?

In will in the new firmware release in a couple of weeks. At least "high frame rates"

Yes. In 2 weeks we are releasing a pretty monumental build for Scarlet and Epic... Apart from a bunch of other goodies, additional resolutions will appear... including the high frame rate 1K on scarlet.