Red Scarlet 2/3'' or S35

[Jean-Charles Myrand]

Hi guys, this is my first post and i'm glad to join the 4K community or 28K if you have a really BIG budget!

I just finished a 2 year program in Television production in Ottawa and notice that even tho I eat and sleep for television, my interest was and will go toward cinema, since Ive worked with Cinealta HDXDcam's, Ive notice that its hard to get that Motion picture look that I love since television and movie are two different industries. First camera i bought was an JVC GY-DV500, witch was fun to play with but didnt meet my needs. Now that I know RED for a hole year, I'm looking to buy the Red Scarlet, the 2/3'' cinema or the S35. I need you guys if you can, to help me build a package that will fit my needs, in terms of budget that is around 15k and 5k for an MacPro.

Thank You!

 

[Christian Edwards]

welcome
what are your needs? your needs should determined you package should'nt it ?! Remember you can always upgrade
decisions decisions decisions...

 

[Jean-Charles Myrand]

Im looking for a camera that is good on a shoulder and that can also be mount on a tripod. I intend saving all data on the red drive so i wont use cards.

Im trying to aim a package similar to this one...

 

[Kenneth Elkington]

Don't discount the usefulness of CF cards. Red drives can give you frame drops in action shots sometimes.

 

[Imran Farouk]

You could always go for the SDD given that would probably be pointless as it would be the largest cost in your budget (other then the body itself).
TBH...
Since no details on the pricing of the accessories are available etc. its difficult to begin to build a package as god knows, RED probably hasn't announced a good amount of the things that are planned for the scarlets and epics, this includes the modules.
Right now at this point in time, I would look at the 2/3 and use the rest of the money to save up, as the modules used in the 2/3 system can later be used on the S35 system. Simple upgrading, plus it means you can learn from the basics of shooting RED and editing with it and move on up.
Alt. later you could even by a second 2/3 system and use the RED 3D rig.

The decisions are endless,

what are your needs? your needs should determined you package should'nt it ?! Remember you can always upgrade
decisions decisions decisions...

 

[Jean-Charles Myrand]

Also

Also

Right now at this point in time, I would look at the 2/3 and use the rest of the money to save up, as the modules used in the 2/3 system can later be used on the S35 system. Simple upgrading, plus it means you can learn from the basics of shooting RED and editing with it and move on up.

Thats also my thinking when i saw that the 2/3'' wasnt that bad after looking at the Izzy iguana video. My biggest concerne was that if I go with the s35, i wont be able to do slow-motion because it only has 30 fps. But on second tauth, i wounder if 3k will be enough for me since the compettion that has the regualr RED ONE can do 4k. Should i got for something that films in 2k, 3k, quadHD, 4k and 5k, or the 2/3 that does 3k and goes up to 120 fps.... :embarassed:

 

[Imran Farouk]

well...if slowmo is what you want to do...there are many reasons for the 2/3. The fact that it does 3k doesn't mean that it can't be output to film. The thing is that the S35 in bad hands can look as bad as an FX1 a 2/3 in good hands can look as good as the RED One or the S35. It depends on how you handle the camera. More so the 2/3 can do 3D if you have two of them, the lenses right now are quite cheap and more so the fact that you can do those slow mo's and everything is brilliant!I won't say which to go for, as that is completely up to you.

k\Yet the fact that you can always upgrade is something you should never forget. What comes with the fixed lens scarlet can work with the S35. Say in a year you earn enough to buy the S35. You buy it and its ready to go! Say you then earn enough to buy a 617 Epic...then you buy that and its all good to go!thats the beauty!Right now I'm having a similar debate. I found that I'll need to by a full rig, the tripod, shoulder etc. everything. Looking at the S35, 7k + accessories and the modules may place me at about 12k maybe 13k. I'm guessing that is because if I buy a RED lens, which I really want to. I'm right up to 17k. Pretty much thinking the 2/3 is the way to go. Though I love the idea that once I buy the S35 I won't ever have to buy another still camera or video again! Always a problem to have so much choice xD but so useful when you can always move up. So I'm guessing I'll buy the 2/3 interchangeable lenses and then move on up with the money i will HOPEFULLY make Once I get enough I can then fully module both of them and rent one whilst I shoot on my beloved S35...!
(As it is, I'm tempted just to buy a RED-ONE so I can get the special edition Epic but thats just my RED obsession lurking :sifone: )

 

[Ryan Hamblin]

I hope this doesn't sound like a very arrogant question/statement, but how much have you shot on Red One? How much 2/3inch HD of any kind, How much s35?

What I am getting at is go shoot a bunch of different formats. Get alot of experience with the craft of filmmaking and the many different tools/cameras/formats there are to make films with. That way when the time comes that the cameras actually hit the market, you know your style, your needs and how to properly use this camera. Until then rent for each project, know how to throw a budget together etc...

Just my opinion though.

(r)yan

 

[David Rasberry]

well...if slowmo is what you want to do...there are many reasons for the 2/3. The fact that it does 3k doesn't mean that it can't be output to film. :sifone: )

The 2/3" Scarlet can certainly be output to film. Post DI work is mostly done in 2k format and Scarlet 3k can produce a fully resolved 2k widescreen theatrical format image file. That is what it is designed for.

 

[Scott Watts]

But on second tauth, i wounder if 3k will be enough for me since the compettion that has the regualr RED ONE can do 4k. ... :embarassed:

There have been many 16mm movies that have outdone hollywood 35mm movies. Being more creative than the competition helps a lot.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

There have been many 16mm movies that have outdone hollywood 35mm movies. Being more creative than the competition helps a lot.

And also, going the RED Mini-prime (or better) route the difference won't be that great.

 

[Jean-Charles Myrand]

The 2/3" Scarlet can certainly be output to film. Post DI work is mostly done in 2k format and Scarlet 3k can produce a fully resolved 2k widescreen theatrical format image file. That is what it is designed for.

Sorry for asking the question that might sound newbie, but what do you mean OUTPUT too, you mean at the SDI output of the camera, or you mean after the editing.... Also, if you tell me it can DO fully resolved 2k widescreen that gives that Motion picture look, does it mean that it CANNOT DO the full resolved 3k??? Help me on this one

 

[killfilm]

Sorry for asking the question that might sound newbie, but what do you mean OUTPUT too, you mean at the SDI output of the camera, or you mean after the editing.... Also, if you tell me it can DO fully resolved 2k widescreen that gives that Motion picture look, does it mean that it CANNOT DO the full resolved 3k??? Help me on this one

i asked the same question, the answer was somewhere along the lines of because of demosaicing, sensor size etc. Its actually more like 2.4k. But specs can change anytime and maybe they did. I think a 2k final is where Scarlet fixed would excel

 

[Juhan Malmstein]

Where would you present 3k?
~2.4k is more than enough- it provides some look around space for final 2k or 1080p output(cropping can be done with no resolution loss), which is where 99.9% of digital is presented anyway. Why more ?
I've played with a SI-2k MINI camera, it has a 2/3" sensor just like the Scarlet will, and it delivers a max resolution of 2k, but still some unknown features like the Slumdog Millionaire have been shot on that camera. with good glass 2/3" provides more than enough DOF and even if you shoot at 2k the resolution is still amazing - and to think that the lowest end Scarlet will provide you such valuable space for reframing and cropping - something that hasn't been possible before at such high resolutions (except ofcourse the R1 :beer. On top of that, the 2/3" model will give you 120fps, this demolishes ANYTHING any other company is offering or will offer in the near future, even in price categories several times higher than the Scarlet will be. The SI-2k Mini BRAIN only costs way more than the 8x Scarlet starter kit, which is ready to shoot out of the box, while the SI-2k Mini requires a laptop, lens, some kind of battery system etc.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Sorry for asking the question that might sound newbie, but what do you mean OUTPUT too, you mean at the SDI output of the camera, or you mean after the editing.... Also, if you tell me it can DO fully resolved 2k widescreen that gives that Motion picture look, does it mean that it CANNOT DO the full resolved 3k??? Help me on this one

It's the difference between the size of the files and the measurable resolution in the frame. The camera can record 3K RAW, that can be converted (debayered) to 3K RGB for post, but the most it can potentially resolve on a line chart would be 2.4K after debayering to RGB. But that's OK because most D.I.'s are done at 2K RGB, so a 3K RAW camera is fine for that. You can finish it to a 3K RGB master or a 2K RGB master, doesn't really matter just that 2K is more standardized and the image can't resolve more than 2.4K max anyway, so you might as well finish the project at 2K.

No bayer-filtered single-sensor camera can create the same measurable line / pixel resolution in RGB as exists on the original monochrome sensor with the Bayer filter pattern. You can create the same size frame in pixels after transformation to color, but that's not the same thing as measurable resolution, just as the fact that you can scan 35mm film at 4K RGB doesn't mean that a chart you shot on that piece of film would necessarily show 4K resolution.

It's not a 1:1 process, and besides, you need an optical low-pass filter in front of the sensor to reduce aliasing problems - you actually don't want a 3K sensor to resolve 3K on a chart because the aliasing would be unpleasant. So in general, you want a sensor that starts out with more pixels than the final product to benefit from oversampling and low-pass filtering. So a 3K RAW camera should make fine 2K RGB images, just as a 4K RAW camera makes fine 3K RGB images, etc.

 

[David Rasberry]

Sorry for asking the question that might sound newbie, but what do you mean OUTPUT too, you mean at the SDI output of the camera, or you mean after the editing.... Also, if you tell me it can DO fully resolved 2k widescreen that gives that Motion picture look, does it mean that it CANNOT DO the full resolved 3k??? Help me on this one

Most theatrical films these days are edited and finished in a 2k digital intermediate format, whether they originate on film or from a digital camera. The finished film is then printed to 35mm film or to 2k 2048x1080)digital cinema format for distribution. Slumdog Millionaire for instance had a lot of footage shot with a 2/3" 2k resolution digital camera, and SI2K. Benjamin Button was shot on a 2/3" HD video camera. Scarlet 2/3" shoots 3k resolution, so should be better quality when down converted to 2k.

 

[Stephen Williams]

Benjamin Button was shot on a 2/3" HD video camera. Scarlet 2/3" shoots 3k resolution, so should be better quality when down converted to 2k.

Probably Benjamin Button, they spent an awful lot of money on post.

 

[PatrickKrebs]

I like the frame rates on the 2/3's but if it doesn't have interchangeable lenses I'm gonna have to foot the bill for the s35.
Hope there is goo news tomorrow.

 

[Peter Weisberg]

Patrick what do you mean the 2/3 doesn't have interchangable lenses? It comes as a brain only as well as the option for a fixed 8x zoom lens. The fixed camera is the only one that has the option for a full kit purchase add on. But the 2/3rds does have the interchangeable brain.

 

[Jean-Charles Myrand]

I like the frame rates on the 2/3's but if it doesn't have interchangeable lenses I'm gonna have to foot the bill for the s35.
Hope there is goo news tomorrow.

I would suggest you to wait at the final specs of the 2/3'' before going toward the s35, I had the same thinking as you until I saw what this little fella is capable of... And yet, I didnt see all of its potential, so imagine all the possibilities... :beer: