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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED S35 or Panasonic AF100

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Wim Scheyltjens said:
That's what the AF100 is basically, a $6000! GH1 in a different body.
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Are you serious. The ONLY thing that is the same is the sensor.

The large body will allow much faster processing... so say goodbye to moire, aliasing and jello (as stated by the panasonic rep on DVXuer). Add to that HD-SDI out, HMDI 1080p monitoring, a fantastic EVF, articulating screen, XLRs and other pro out/ins, dual CF slots, plus much more.

Then think about what you can control in camera.... knee, pedestal, gamma etc.

This camera is far from a GH1.
 
still a shoddy low bitrate codec, i despise avchd with a passion, and I believe panasonic stated it will be recording to SD cards. Cheaper than CF, but limits on bitrate and possible alternative codec solutions. Everything else is on point though. I feel like the AF-100 is going to be one of the new standards in prosumer, but key words are one of the. There will be a place for both cameras in the market. Both have pro's and cons. Some people might want a straight out of box, non modular easy going camera. Others want more bells and whistles. The fact that we are having more TRUE viable options, and getting AWAY from dslrs slowly but surely is a good thing. a VERY VERY good thing.
 
Jim Retar said:
Are you serious. The ONLY thing that is the same is the sensor.

The large body will allow much faster processing... so say goodbye to moire, aliasing and jello (as stated by the panasonic rep on DVXuer). Add to that HD-SDI out, HMDI 1080p monitoring, a fantastic EVF, articulating screen, XLRs and other pro out/ins, dual CF slots, plus much more.

Then think about what you can control in camera.... knee, pedestal, gamma etc.

This camera is far from a GH1.
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Definitely a big step up and it will certainly be a player in the midrange prosumer market. Records to SD not CF I believe. There is much to like about the potential of this camera. Especially considering the results we are seeing with the GH13 hack. It is nice to have all of these choices emerging. Hope Panny takes the GH13 to heart and doesn't mess it up.
 
The codec is really not that bad at all and you can always use a nano flash to get a better format.

I'd hope for an upgrade option to AVCIntra, details are not yet finalised and alot of people are asking for Intra.... so you never know.
 
Also being able to bypass the AVCHD codec via HD-SDI or HDMI makes it more production friendly.
 
And this thread probably has about 1 or 2 more page of comments before being asked to move the discussion off campus.
 
Jim Retar said:
Just to appease the RED gods.... I will buy a Scarlet s35, no matter what the competition comes out with. There is no way they can compete with that camera.
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I agree with you. I will purchase from RED, when that time comes. The sliding deadline is no fun. I have a business plan and bottomline just as RED does. So I have to plan for the contingency, that's all.
 
Jim Retar said:
The codec is really not that bad at all and you can always use a nano flash to get a better format.

I'd hope for an upgrade option to AVCIntra, details are not yet finalised and alot of people are asking for Intra.... so you never know.
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Jan, the Panny rep at the show said AVCIntra/P2 would up the price by $2k. That's why they won't do it. They want to hit the $6k target price.
 
Let's not forget it is AVCCAM PH, which is a lot more efficient than consumer-level AVCHD. In fact, 24 Mbps AVCCAM will produce better results than 50 Mbps MPEG-2/XDCAM/HDV.

It is a good compromise. Of course, if you really want uncompressed or some other high-bitrate codec, you can record it yourself.

But of course, it is quite remarkable that RED is close to producing a camera under $5k recording RAW.
 
well the target price range is 6k, a nano flash is about 3 grand, a ki pro is 4 grand ish, plus you would want to invest in some sxs cards. This pushes the camera very close to the price of a full functional scarlet. but added weight and size. It's a really hard toss up, if they could put in intra for an extra 2k, and allow it as an option, ie higher grade camera, than it undercuts the scarlet by half (estimate) and gives a great intra frame 10 bit codec. VERY useful, VERY viable. Huge use for a camera like that. Scarlet will always have the edge cause of RAW, larger sensor size, and modularity. But as far as camera straight out of the box goes, it's going to be very useful. I think both are going to be very successful cameras either way. A true full raster avchd is alright, better than anything the GH1 can put out, and NLE's are adopting it faster for native editing.Camera is supposely 6 months or so away so we'll see. At the moment, AVCHD not a fan, but that's always subject to change. Let's see if Panny can get their mojo back.
 
Jim Retar said:
The codec is really not that bad at all and you can always use a nano flash to get a better format.
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That adds $3,000, so it does push it closer to the S35 Scarlet.

I'd hope for an upgrade option to AVCIntra, details are not yet finalised and alot of people are asking for Intra.... so you never know.
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Panasonic has said that onboard P2 and AVC Intra are out. You could record to an AG-HPG20, but that would cost another $4,200 or so. So for more than $10K you could have a 12.5-MBps (100-Mbps), 10-bit, 4:2:2, 1080p camera system, or, eventually, for a little more a 100-MBps (800-Mbps), 12-bit, RAW, 5K camera (assuming S35 Scarlet's price doesn't increase too much and there is a camera package a la fixed Scarlet).
 
i hate to be a debbie downer here. but since neither of these cameras actually exists in a mass production incarnation. seems to me a lot of wasted effort bantering back and forth over what may or may not come to fruition...
 
Well, Panasonic hit their targets, this WILL ship in December.... that is the very important point here. Especially for those of us with $$$$ burning a hole in our pocket and projects starting in 2011.
 
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Well I think it's a pretty accepted practice to talk about vaporware, any on set of new technology that can benefit all our careers and even ways of life is worth talking about. The info that can be extracted from the back and forth talk, and educated guess with factual information already released can be invaluable for people looking to save their money for these things.

Plus if you can't geek talk, what can you talk about? jeez... :)
 
Epic/Scarlet Color-coded Level Advisory System

Epic/Scarlet Color-coded Level Advisory System

Jim Retar said:
that is the very important point here.
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Based on Jim's recent optimism, the Epic/Scarlet advisory color has been Elevated to a Yellow status.

I have informed all family members that 2010's Christmas money will be held in escrow until there absolutely is no way the Epic or Scarlet will ship before years end. The cutoff time is around the 1st week of December before reserved funds will be released for holiday usage.

Daddy needs a big Christmas!
 
Well I think it's a pretty accepted practice to talk about vaporware
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yeah, i guess so. but it seems the tone in a lot of these threads is like an either/or situation. its just hard to get my head around something that i cant get my hands on in the reasonably forseeable future...

ok, ill shut up and mind my own business now : )
 
prices.jpg


1. In life, one generally pays for what one gets. Scarlet will be a bit more expensive when kitted, but it will be better - at least for my needs.

2. Time may be of the essence. If December rolls around, you have gobs of paying work lined up that could really utilize something like the AF-100 or the Scarlet and the S35 Scarlet isn't out but the AF-100 is...the choice seems simple. Buy the tool you need when you need it. It will work. It may not work as well as a forthcoming product eventually will, but a forthcoming product won't do any work right now.

Edit: The prices above are what I would consider to be "kitted" prices - what I would probably need to spend to get shooting with the camera in a reasonable fashion.

This also doesn't include some of the other neat ideas RED has implemented - touch focus tracking/pulling, timelapse mode, 120fps 3K mode, and whole idea of modularity. It gets to me that I have to purchase a whole new camera when they release the AF-200 even though it will most likely use virtually identical audio, storage, and power components. This, above perhaps everything else, has always made RED a great idea to me.
 
RAW vs baked-in. That's the end of the debate for me.

Doesn't matter what codec it is, how high the bitrate is, how much more convenient technophobes find the editing process, baked-in sucks and is a deal-breaker for me.
 
To make a fair comparison... you have to add in an EVF which runs at around $3200.

The AF-100 - $6000 plus an SD card will get you images = $6050?

S35, LCD, EVF, redmote, battery pack, side CF, plus CF card will get you images = $15000?

Almost 3 times the price.
 
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