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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED Rocket

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No, not a troll, just tired of marketing hype. And yes, workflow for film is easy.

I'm not just talking about Avid. Support for a product runs two ways, especially when someone is introducing it into an established market. RED's biggest mistake was signing an agreement with just two companies for development when those two companies had a measurably small portion of the market. What we have ended up with after two years is a great camera that shoots great images, but has about 50 workflow variations, none of which is completely certified as being the best and easiest way. I'm an editor, and by either training or experience, like all other editors I know, we are pragmatic about "great new developments." Ever heard of "fixing it in post?" Well, I'm the guy who has to do that. Yeah, the images you hand me may be great, but if I end up beating my head against a wall because the workflow to get a deliverable out of it drives me insane, then what good is it. Sure, RED may be cheaper than film, but from my experience, it's not faster and it's not easier. I know that RED will get it there, but I could do without all of the freaking hype.
 
Rex Teese said:
I know that RED will get it there, but I could do without all of the freaking hype.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the hype, but I have to disagree with the ease of the post. I find it quite simple, and very efficient. This new "Red Rocket" card will make things quicker (whenever it shows it's face). But the flow already works quickly and efficiently for us.

Colin
 
Rex Teese said:
What we have ended up with after two years is a great camera that shoots great images, but has about 50 workflow variations, none of which is completely certified as being the best and easiest way. I'm an editor, and by either training or experience, like all other editors I know, we are pragmatic about "great new developments." Ever heard of "fixing it in post?" Well, I'm the guy who has to do that. Yeah, the images you hand me may be great, but if I end up beating my head against a wall because the workflow to get a deliverable out of it drives me insane, then what good is it.
Click to expand...

If you are a post guy, as myself, this is what makes you money, isn't it? There are so many workflows that work, depending on your platform, software, time vs money, and what your client wants or expects.

The fact that there are 50 workflow variations is a good thing in my book. It all depends on the project and what your client can afford. Best and easiest isn't necessarily the same thing either. You should know that.

And please, there are no "completely certified" workflows for film either. Never has, never will be.

Cheers,
Fredrik
 
rex. people like you make me laugh. 'RED's biggest mistake was.....blah blah blah.'

you said it yourself. you have 50 different workflow options. learn one. pick one. use one. forget about the other 49.

nah. on second thought, RED should really hire you. you are right. RED has no idea how limiting their workflow problems are to camera sales. shit man. they should hire you to consult. they are hurting, and have barely sold any cameras. there is barely any talk of support for .r3d at NAB this year from ALL other product maufacturers. If RED had of hired you earlier on in their (3 year old) life, maybe they would have had more success. Maybe they would have sold over 5,000 cameras, turned the industry upside down, and been the ones to truly accelerate the use of digital over film.

Truth is Rex, it is RED's 50 different (some cheap, some not) workflow options and their ability for anyone (who is willing) to work with their footage straight out of the camera EVEN on a laptop if you wish that is a HUGE part of why they are a hit. And if you want to work with it on an AVID, then transcode to native AVID files. 'Process' the footage. You should be able to understand that Rex, 'process'....like film.

Now go stick your head back up your ass.....
 
Fredrik Harreschou said:
LOL! I think he refers to a render of the actual pci board.
Click to expand...

Double LOL - as you got it right. ;) I saw the student signature and assumed he was asking a basic question. Obviously I need to get more sleep rather than partying. I thought I saw a volcano erupt next to a pirate ship last night.

Thankfully my dreams were better in this morning's RED sunlight.

Rosco
 
Rex Teese said:
No, not a troll, just tired of marketing hype. And yes, workflow for film is easy.

I'm not just talking about Avid. Support for a product runs two ways, especially when someone is introducing it into an established market. RED's biggest mistake was signing an agreement with just two companies for development when those two companies had a measurably small portion of the market. What we have ended up with after two years is a great camera that shoots great images, but has about 50 workflow variations, none of which is completely certified as being the best and easiest way. I'm an editor, and by either training or experience, like all other editors I know, we are pragmatic about "great new developments." Ever heard of "fixing it in post?" Well, I'm the guy who has to do that. Yeah, the images you hand me may be great, but if I end up beating my head against a wall because the workflow to get a deliverable out of it drives me insane, then what good is it. Sure, RED may be cheaper than film, but from my experience, it's not faster and it's not easier. I know that RED will get it there, but I could do without all of the freaking hype.
Click to expand...

Rex, as a post professional it is our jobs to stay on top of technology and new workflows. We have been posting Red One footage for well over a year now and have not beat our heads against the wall once. We have a workflow that works exceptionally well and its not rocket science.
 
make red rocket modular!

make red rocket modular!

Maybe there would be a way to make a generic connector as as outboard box. with the connector cable going to either an internal pci-e board or expresscard. Then best of both worlds. And when the slot technology changed again you just swap out the interface module to the motherboard instead of the whole logic module of the red rocket.
GO modular like the red itself and dongle off the interface part to be what ever is fast enough at the time.

Chris. said:
VERY NICE! Nice price too. :thumbsup:



What speed of PCI-Express slot does it need? Any change a PCI expresscard34 is possible down the road?!?... they are limited to single lane PCI-Express speeds so I'm thinking probably not. :) ...I'm still hoping though, or that if single lane is supported something like this can work.

http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/expresscard-34-to-pci-expansion-box-p29858.html

--
Chris.
Click to expand...
 
I don't know about you Rex, but our workflows are very much in the exact vain of a film work flow. So if the film workflow is easy then by proxy so is the red.

As has been said. Find a workflow and make it work.
 
Danish P.V. said:
Did you see their examples on the gallery? Not the best images to showcase their cards/technologies, looks like early 90ies computergraphics to me...
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Yeah their examples are pretty bad 'developer art'. But that's just bad art not bad tech. It's like debayering bad red footage in real time. :D Don't judge the quality of the chip on the quality of the picture.

Once they get Brazil 2 accellerated then anything rendered with Brazil 2 will be a demonstration of the card's quality.

---

Re: Aja and FW 800

Not going to happen. If you're debayering 5k into RGB in real time at 24fps then you're looking at Gigabytes per second of uncompressed video. There just isn't enough bandwidth with any external connection except for PCIe.
 
Rex Teese said:
No, not a troll, just tired of marketing hype. And yes, workflow for film is easy.

I'm not just talking about Avid. Support for a product runs two ways, especially when someone is introducing it into an established market. RED's biggest mistake was signing an agreement with just two companies for development when those two companies had a measurably small portion of the market. What we have ended up with after two years is a great camera that shoots great images, but has about 50 workflow variations, none of which is completely certified as being the best and easiest way. I'm an editor, and by either training or experience, like all other editors I know, we are pragmatic about "great new developments." Ever heard of "fixing it in post?" Well, I'm the guy who has to do that. Yeah, the images you hand me may be great, but if I end up beating my head against a wall because the workflow to get a deliverable out of it drives me insane, then what good is it. Sure, RED may be cheaper than film, but from my experience, it's not faster and it's not easier. I know that RED will get it there, but I could do without all of the freaking hype.
Click to expand...

Since when does film have only one workflow variation?

Take a look at this:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23606

I gave the top method a run through yesterday and it works beautifully on my mbp -- 2K output from a laptop!
 
One thing I feel the need to say, maybe we could not slam people when they post their point of view. A better use of time would be to offer suggestions or help them wrap their head around the post instead of telling them to stick their head up their ass. Red points people to these boards for help, and there is nothing worse then coming to this forum, and seeing infighting among the participants. Just saying negativity doesn't help anybody.

...and just for the record, I would be happy to help anyway I can, my inbox is always open...

Colin
 
hubickc said:
One thing I feel the need to say, maybe we could not slam people when they post their point of view. A better use of time would be to offer suggestions or help them wrap their head around the post instead of telling them to stick their head up their ass. Red points people to these boards for help, and there is nothing worse then coming to this forum, and seeing infighting among the participants. Just saying negativity doesn't help anybody.

Colin
Click to expand...

If the Rex needs help he has come to the right place. But that wasn't the tone of his post. And he was actually given advice that relates to his profession and his attitude towards something he should actually embrace instead of complain about. The head in the ass remark wasn't necessary. But I still believe he needs to rethink his attitude towards new inventions if he wants to survive in this business. Unless he's one of the top 50 editors in the world. But then he has several assistants working for him anyways and shouldn't have to care where the material comes from...

Cheers,
Fredrik
 
Fredrik Harreschou said:
If the Rex needs help he has come to the right place. But that wasn't the tone of his post. And he was actually given advice that relates to his profession and his attitude towards something he should actually embrace instead of complain about. The head in the ass remark wasn't necessary. But I still believe he needs to rethink his attitude towards new inventions if he wants to survive in this business. Unless he's one of the top 50 editors in the world. But then he has several assistants working for him anyways and shouldn't care where the material comes from...

Cheers,
Fredrik
Click to expand...

I hear you Fredrik, Rex came across hostile, and was met with a hostile response. Some people don't grasp new technology easily, and others just don't want to accept change. But none the less, we as RED professionals can put out the ultimate in professionalism, by ignoring the negative "gun shot" posts and try to help with the main topic of post / camera / whatever, and ignore the hostility.

just saying, let's try and chill out a bit. Much better results are achieved with a cool head.

best
Colin
 
the head in the ass comment wasn't necessary, and i apologize.

but it was kinda funny.

anyways, i felt rex's post had a tone to it that did not warrant an 'i'm so sorry sir you are having difficulty with RED workflow, how can we help you?' so i opted for the 'head in the ass' response. sorry.
 
Chris Parker said:
the head in the ass comment wasn't necessary, and i apologize.
Click to expand...

takes a big person to apologize, kudos.

...Anyway back to the technology!!

Hey Jim, when can we look forward to this taking up a slot in my machine!?!?!

Colin
 
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