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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED Rocket update...

Michele Gavazzeni said:
Actually for basic editing RED materials I can use whatever Mac Pro but
the workstation I use for grading and finishing RED>DPX footage (which is the same I use for uncompressed HD editing) is connected to a DAS of 15 HDDs 15TB and actually (70% full) has 590MB/s sustained read/write usually when I can archive projects frequently is able to handle more bandwidth.

I use an Atto 8X Raid card I don't know how it would perform in the 4X slot.
Click to expand...

Since even the older v.1.0 x4 slot is capable of 1GB/s - You will not notice any difference. I have a RAID card in the older v.1.0 x4 slot (having other RAID cards in the other slots as well) that can sustain 800+ MB/s on writes and 900+ MB/s on reads...:

EVO4K-16-1680X.jpg


You will be just fine...
In reality...

:) Peter
 
Looking for 50-150mm for rental

Looking for 50-150mm for rental

Ah, for some reason I was thinking the Nehalem Mac Pro still had v1.0 for slots 3 & 4. I guess I knew better, but... And yes, while that is the equivalent of the v1.0 x8 slots, it still takes a v2.0 card to make use of that extra bandwidth.

As for the storage controllers and bandwidth, call it inefficient or what you will, but I have yet to find a storage controller that can actually deliver the theoretical max bandwidth and they always perform worse when in a slot rated lower than their ideal. Most PCIe x4 RAID controllers top out between 550~600MB/s, even though the slot specs say they should be able to approach 1GB/s. I have to take issue with the Blackmagic speed test, too... It's always overly optimistic. It tells me my CalDigit sustains over 740MB/s from its RAID, even though that's physically impossible and other benchmarks more accurately report about 450MB/s. Even 1GB/s is pretty restrictive if you're trying to drive one RAID volume for workspace @ 450MB/s, a system volume at 220MB/s and another external RAID or LTO unit if they all get hit at the same time.

I agree with your assessment, though. We just have to accept that in the current Mac Pro systems, not all installed cards will be able to be fully supported in terms of bandwidth in all cases. And for many applications it's probably not critical... Or if it is, then it just becomes a need for more systems to support individual applications. Which is the reason I have two Mac Pros already -- I don't need two of them, my peripherals do.
 
Since You will be editing the R3D's - this speeds are more then enough even for the 617 EPIC, providing the "2010 RED ROCKET 2" can handle real-time 28K debayer... :devil:

Once You are over to 4K uncompressed RGB - this is fine as well, especially in the newer v.2.0 x4 slots on the Nehalem...

:) Peter
 
Peter Majtan said:
Since even the older v.1.0 x4 slot is capable of 1GB/s - You will not notice any difference. I have a RAID card in the older v.1.0 x4 slot (having other RAID cards in the other slots as well) that can sustain 800+ MB/s on writes and 900+ MB/s on reads...:

You will be just fine...
In reality...

:) Peter
Click to expand...

I've seen similar performance on x4 raid cards also. With x8, I've seen around 1.6-1.7GB/s.
 
Mac Pro features four PCI Express 16X connectors

Mac Pro features four PCI Express 16X connectors

I'd point out a common mistake talking about Apple PCIe expansion slots.

Most of the user think that Mac Pro expansion slots are
starting from the bottom one
16X/16X/4X/4X
Actually the Mac Pro features four PCI Express 16X connectors

You can find the complete documentation here http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2838

PCI Express cards will work in slots that are at least as large as the card is. This means that the "x16" slots in the Mac Pro computer also supports "x1" and "x4" cards as well. However, all four slots cannot simultaneously support four cards that implement the same lane configuration. Only one slot actually has 16 lanes going to it—you can put a x16 card into a slot that is only using one lane and it will operate properly, but it will operate more slowly than the same card in a x4, x8 or x16 slot.

Using the Expansion Slot Utility you can choose from 4 different configurations with a maximum of 25 lanes available for all four PCI Express
As you can see if you have a 16X graphic card installed and a 8X RedRoket the other two PCI Express slots can work at a max speed of 1X each.

One option for using the RedRoket is to configure three 8X PCI Express slots and one 1X PCI Express slot sacrifing the GPU(Option number 3).
Or sacrifing the RAID controller on a 1X PCI Express slot and having the slot configured as 16x/8X/1X/1X(Option number 1).

HT2838_1.jpg
 
Michele - that is only related to the first 2007 Mac Pro. Both (Early) 2008 and (Nehalem) 2009 do not support the "Expansion Slot Utility".

And just because the lanes support "mechanically" the x16 cards - they will only provide them with fixed 16/16/4/4 speeds (2008/2009 model) and in the case of 2007 only the Slot 1 can actually provide x16 speed...

:) Peter

EDIT: The current (Nehalem) specs:

PCI Express architecture:

- Four open full-length PCI Express expansion slots
- Two PCI Express 2.0 x16 slot (Slot 1 & 2)
- Two PCI Express 2.0 x4 slots (Slot 3 & 4)
- All slots provide mechanical support for 16-lane cards
- 300W combined maximum for all PCI Express slots
 
Smart product for RED at this time. Should provide excellent cash flow assuming they can meet the demand and give Red an extreme advantage in post workflow.

-michael zaletel
(shooter)
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
...I have to take issue with the Blackmagic speed test, too... It's always overly optimistic. It tells me my CalDigit sustains over 740MB/s from its RAID, even though that's physically impossible and other benchmarks more accurately report about 450MB/s...
Click to expand...

I am getting consistent results in BMD, AJA and CLI for the new MAXX DIGITAL EVO 2K & 4K units. The speeds are real and sustained. I am able to exceed 700 MB/s even at 3/4 full volume. I kid You not...

:) Peter
 
Good to know since I was thinking of upgrading one of the "old" Mac Pro to the newer Mac Pro.
One more reason!

This leaves me with one more question
Deanan said:
Hell yeah! (translated: any software using the SDK will be able to take advantage of REDrocket)
Click to expand...

So we can play timelines out of our preferred software.
BUT
If I'm not working with Red footage, something HD but with a different codec?
Basically can it work like a kona (for monitoring and outputting) ?
 
I'm no Deanan, but the way I understand it - it is specifically designed to work with R3D format. So in my opinion the answer is no - You will still need AJA/BMD cards to play other HD formats in realtime - and more importantly - to have the pro I/O connectors to connect to decks and broadcast monitors... The RED ROCKET will only feature output (no input), so it can't be used to capture footage, only to play it back from the HDD.

Deanan - feel free to correct me if I am wrong...

:) Peter
 
and more importantly - to have the pro I/O connectors to connect to decks and broadcast monitors... The RED ROCKET will only feature output (no input), so it can't be used to capture footage, only to play it back from the HDD.
Click to expand...

I was wondering for joust monitoring and outputting.
Since it has the HDSDI outputs it should be able to connect to decks and broadcast monitors.
 
Correct. No HD-SDI input/capture.
Click to expand...
Ok but that wasn't the question...;)

I still need AJA/BMD cards to play and output to a HDSDI monitor other HD formats in realtime
 
The only thing left in this puzzle is getting Color to use the Rocket.

I really really hope that is part of the plan.
 
Peter Majtan said:
I am getting consistent results in BMD, AJA and CLI for the new MAXX DIGITAL EVO 2K & 4K units. The speeds are real and sustained. I am able to exceed 700 MB/s even at 3/4 full volume. I kid You not...
Click to expand...

I don't doubt the 700MB/s... I'm just surprised at the consistency between those benchmarking utilities. BMD and AJA benchmarking are always errant on the high side in my testing.

Anyway, like I said, I still agree with your assessment of what cards to put where and that in most situations the x4 (even v1.0 x4 PCIe) is going to be sufficient for most workstation-class storage needs. My point is that there are situations where a compromise must still take place. In Brook's situation, I think he has his Mac Pro crammed to the gills and I believe it's an early '08 model like mine are. From what I know of his config and what he does on his DIT cart, this could be of real concern to him. It would suck if his best solution is to cough up another $6K or so for a Nehalem Mac Pro and possibly a new RAID card, just to keep his storage bandwidth where he needs it. ...And ATTO hasn't started shipping their R6xx series cards yet, so they only PCIe v2.0 cards they have do not have full RAID functionality.

I can still say that a x4 slot running at 1GB/s would really be cutting it close for my ATTO-equipped Mac Pro and what I do with it. Then again, I'm not looking to put the Red Rocket in that system.
:beer:
 
Will the RED Rocket support segmented output -- as in 1080psf for direct connection to most HDCAM decks, etc..?
 
Vegas and RED are an awesome duo on our PCs with a 4tb RAID, but slow to edit with... so I hope Red Rocket will solve this. Vegas really needs a better UI though for Red footage, because it handles clip import and project loading incredibly sloooow, and the UI for the Red settings reads like DOS. Regardless, Vegas is far more appealing to edit with than our FCP system and it's soo much faster and intuitive. Thank you Sony for getting on board this time! And thank you for the Red Rocket!

We'd love to see the ability to bridge two Rockets for dual stream performance!

Say goodbye to Scratch and DaVinci - Hello Color! Now we just need a simple EDL export plug-in from Vegas to Color. Or port Color to the PC - Not likely!
 
J Clark said:
Vegas and RED are an awesome duo on our PCs with a 4tb RAID, but slow to edit with... so I hope Red Rocket will solve this. Vegas really needs a better UI though for Red footage, because it handles clip import and project loading incredibly sloooow, and the UI for the Red settings reads like DOS. Regardless, Vegas is far more appealing to edit with than our FCP system and it's soo much faster and intuitive. Thank you Sony for getting on board this time! And thank you for the Red Rocket!

We'd love to see the ability to bridge two Rockets for dual stream performance!

Say goodbye to Scratch and DaVinci - Hello Color! Now we just need a simple EDL export plug-in from Vegas to Color. Or port Color to the PC - Not likely!
Click to expand...

FCP is two years without a major update, let's see what this summer brings
 
Guys i Might Be Wrong,
But i am not Sure that Color Became realtime color Grading with Red Rocket...

Fo example Grading DPX with Color (No Intensive CPU decode usage) is not realtime at all ...

And this is because Color doesn't use the GPU that much (or at least not powerful GPU) to have realtime layers of grading like Scratch etc..Does

So i guess that RedRocket does not mean Realtime color correction in Color for R3D...

Am i Wrong?

G
 
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