RED Rocket update...

[dyingstar]

n i c e

n i c e

This thing sounds awesome! Can't wait to get a look at it closer to launch.

 

[JonathanF]

And add my voice to those calling for the unified .look file structure to come a bit faster! I would dearly love to set my look and curves in RedCine and upload it to camera...

I think there is a lot of good sense in manufacturers to follow the ASC's CDL format which you can learn more about on Wikipedia and www.theasc.com.

There's already support for it in Lustre and other manufacturers are following suit. Being able to use TIming software to make CDL's that could go to the camera would be really nice. I know if I could take CDL's in from RA and RC it would make my life easier. But we're kinda in the wrong thread for this discussion...

:J

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

Carl,

while i don't disagree that Davinci and Color were developed with different goals in mind, I do disagree that color can not be used in a high end commercial environment with clients in the room. We do this on a daily basis and have award winning results (the other nominees were both graded on the davinci).

Hi Alex,

There is alot of good work on your reel that shows that Color is very capable of highend colour timing when someone skilled is using it. As a former FinalTouch user I know what Color can do but it has one big downside: it's not RT. You're saying that you use Color with clients behind your neck. I find it close to impossible to tell a client that she/he cannot see the new grades in real time. Fortunately I don't server clients but I do a a lot of grading for my own projects, so to speak serving myself. I stopped using FinalTouch/Color for this annoying reason of not playing back in real time and invested some money on a solution that does RT. From an artist point of view I find RT a must: when colour timing you are in a pace, kind of a trip - anything that interrupts you is bad.

Otherwise it's great that Apple is giving away a grading tool for nothing. But as long as they don't support NVIDIA SDI out (not supported on Macs - why...?) and don't implement ordinary EDL conforming Color won't be in the realm of a pro grading tool.


Hans

 

[Deanan]

I tend to use Supermicro too, just not for mobile systems and there is no such thing as extended eATX or double extended.
It is either extended or it is not, please please be more specific. Thank you.

If it were eATX, there would be a lot of options. Supermicro calls it Enhanced eATX.

The board does not fit in an eATX case or matches up with all the eATX holes.

 

[Craig Schober]

Hi Alex,

There is alot of good work on your reel that shows that Color is very capable of highend colour timing when someone skilled is using it. As a former FinalTouch user I know what Color can do but it has one big downside: it's not RT.

so will the redrocket make color a realtime app for 4k material? playback? rendering/export time? can anyone (particularly from red) confirm this?

thanks.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Hi Alex,

There is alot of good work on your reel that shows that Color is very capable of highend colour timing when someone skilled is using it. As a former FinalTouch user I know what Color can do but it has one big downside: it's not RT. You're saying that you use Color with clients behind your neck. I find it close to impossible to tell a client that she/he cannot see the new grades in real time. Fortunately I don't server clients but I do a a lot of grading for my own projects, so to speak serving myself. I stopped using FinalTouch/Color for this annoying reason of not playing back in real time and invested some money on a solution that does RT. From an artist point of view I find RT a must: when colour timing you are in a pace, kind of a trip - anything that interrupts you is bad.

Otherwise it's great that Apple is giving away a grading tool for nothing. But as long as they don't support NVIDIA SDI out (not supported on Macs - why...?) and don't implement ordinary EDL conforming Color won't be in the realm of a pro grading tool.


Hans

Hans, with all due respect - I am trained DaVinci colorist, but for the past couple of years I have switched over to Color. Right now I am finishing grading on a Mexican feature film DESAFIO (shot on RED) in Color and I could not be happier. Sure Color has few glitches and You have to know how to make it work with FCP and RED footage, but this is not what I want to say. What I do want to say is that like editing - color grading is first and foremost an art. 95+% of FCP users use less then 10% of FCP functionality. Color grading tools are very similar in what they do. In fact it is not that hard to write a color grading app - I know, I did it in Japan - a complete color grading interface for SHAKE that plugs in with JL Cooper HW. I agree with You that some tools are better for something and others for something else. But there is no way You could not call Color a professional tool. What really defines a "PRO" tool? When it comes to art - it is the artist. A pencil can become a "PRO" tool. The main reason I switched over to Color is that I have my own business and I have to buy my own gear. Our customers are perfectly happy with FCS and the value it delivers. With RED ROCKET that value is that much more attractive...

Peter

 

[Vico Martin]

Hans, with all due respect - I am trained DaVinci colorist, but for the past couple of years I have switched over to Color. Right now I am finishing grading on a Mexican feature film DESAFIO (shot on RED) in Color and I could not be happier. Sure Color has few glitches and You have to know how to make it work with FCP and RED footage, but this is not what I want to say. What I do want to say is that like editing - color grading is first and foremost an art. 95+% of FCP users use less then 10% of FCP functionality. Color grading tools are very similar in what they do. In fact it is not that hard to write a color grading app - I know, I did it in Japan - a complete color grading interface for SHAKE that plugs in with JL Cooper HW. I agree with You that some tools are better for something and others for something else. But there is no way You could not call Color a professional tool. What really defines a "PRO" tool? When it comes to art - it is the artist. A pencil can become a "PRO" tool. The main reason I switched over to Color is that I have my own business and I have to buy my own gear. Our customers are perfectly happy with FCS and the value it delivers. With RED ROCKET that value is that much more attractive...

Peter

... and up to date the only app with R3D metadata editor with "I see what I´m doing" inside it.

 

[Vico Martin]

and push blacks like a charm!

 

[M Most]

... and up to date the only app with R3D metadata editor with "I see what I´m doing" inside it.

No, it's the only Apple app with that. Lots of other apps have it, in fact, just about any app that uses the SDK has it.

 

[Andrew T Foster]

Yes, the Rocket requires a power feed cable.

The Y-cable looks like an option, but I wonder if the Mac Pro power supply will be overloaded with a 4870 or other high power consuming video card plus a Red Rocket.

It's a good question, but I can only assume RED has tested the RED Rocket on a Mac Pro with a 3870, 8800, 4870 or GTX285. After all how would they be able to sell it? They must have an internal solution (such as a y cable) as well.

Best,

ATF

 

[Toby Risk]

Question and request

Question and request

The Red Rocket looks like a very nice addition to the RED workflow, but I wonder if it is wrongly positioned for the general post-production workflow, and there is still a gap to be filled.

It seems like it's best use would be for screening 4K dailies, archiving rushes to HDCAM SR and creating offline rushes.

For colour grading it obviously alleviates the pressure on the GPU to do the debayering, but as I assume the GPU/CPU still has to handle the grading, masking, tracking and other computations, the Red Rocket's DVI, SDI outputs become redundant. The monitoring outputs would have to be taken from the existing, AJA, BMD, Nvidia, ATI outputs already present in the system.

Is there any chance of a Rocket Lite ithat is purely a debayer and does not have any outputs for around 2K US.

Cheers
Toby

 

[Toby Risk]

so will the redrocket make color a realtime app for 4k material? playback? rendering/export time? can anyone (particularly from red) confirm this?

If you look at the Color DPX workflow for 4K. You need a RAID capable of around 800MB/s to 1.2GB/s to play RT 4K depending on your 4K image height.

Think of the Red Rocket in terms of a 1.2GB/s RAID that can deliver 4K files to Color in RT but it only requires a 50MB/s RAID

The bottleneck then happens in the processing of the individual machine. You will need a whopping great GPU to process all those pixels with primary and secondary grades, geometry and tracking info to get anywhere near RT grading.

I haven't tried the new Nvidia 4800 but plan to get it. I am guessing it will come close to rendering RT the 4k files, with at least a primary grade attached.

And of course Color can only output 2K at the moment.

Cheers
Toby

 

[Justin Anderson]

The Red Rocket looks like a very nice addition to the RED workflow, but I wonder if it is wrongly positioned for the general post-production workflow, and there is still a gap to be filled.

It seems like it's best use would be for screening 4K dailies, archiving rushes to HDCAM SR and creating offline rushes.

For colour grading it obviously alleviates the pressure on the GPU to do the debayering, but as I assume the GPU/CPU still has to handle the grading, masking, tracking and other computations, the Red Rocket's DVI, SDI outputs become redundant. The monitoring outputs would have to be taken from the existing, AJA, BMD, Nvidia, ATI outputs already present in the system.

Is there any chance of a Rocket Lite ithat is purely a debayer and does not have any outputs for around 2K US.

Cheers
Toby

Hm...

Does this make sense? I want to say yes, but my tech knowledge is limited...

 

[Justin Anderson]

...but as I assume the GPU/CPU still has to handle the grading, masking, tracking and other computations, the Red Rocket's DVI, SDI outputs become redundant. The monitoring outputs would have to be taken from the existing, AJA, BMD, Nvidia, ATI outputs already present in the system.

Is there any chance of a Rocket Lite that is purely a debayer and does not have any outputs for around 2K US.

Cheers
Toby

Well the SDI comes from the breakout box, so no problem there.
I wonder how much the price could be lowered by moving the DVI connections to the breakout box as well. Is that what you're getting at?

My guess would be probably not by much. I'm sure most of that $5K is going towards the de-bayering processors and other speed-ups.

 

[Toby Risk]

I wonder how much the price could be lowered by moving the DVI connections to the breakout box as well. Is that what you're getting at?

Not exactly no. Pure speculation on my part (as all others) but the way I see it, unless the Rocket can do the additional task of processing grades and the like from the grading software, as well as the debayer, the outputs from the Rocket will only display the debayered/decompressed images before any Colour correcting software treats the image. Therefore you still need the other outputs mentioned previously to view your grade. This leads me to think that there is a market for a hardware accelerator card only with no outputs. I'd buy one for 2K, but I cannot justify almost 5k for my current workflow.

Maybe not a Rocket Lite, how about a 'Red Jet'

Deanan can you confirm that this is the case as far as the workflow goes please.

 

[Peter Moretti]

... This leads me to think that there is a market for a hardware accelerator card only with no outputs. I'd buy one for 2K, but I cannot justify almost 5k for my current workflow.

Maybe not a Rocket Lite, how about a 'Red Jet'
...

How about the Red Balloon?

 

[Craig Schober]

If you look at the Color DPX workflow for 4K. You need a RAID capable of around 800MB/s to 1.2GB/s to play RT 4K depending on your 4K image height.

Think of the Red Rocket in terms of a 1.2GB/s RAID that can deliver 4K files to Color in RT but it only requires a 50MB/s RAID

The bottleneck then happens in the processing of the individual machine. You will need a whopping great GPU to process all those pixels with primary and secondary grades, geometry and tracking info to get anywhere near RT grading.

thanks for the explanation toby. i'm still not sure how red rocket would fit into my workflow though. i never work with dpx and never need to output more than 2k. if i'm just pushing around native redcode and exporting out to prores, i shouldn't need a crazy fast raid, right? i think i need to upgrade beyond my stock ati card before adding red rocket...baby steps.

 

[Andrew Madu]

As both Abobe Premiere/AE CS4 + RED installer 1.7 operate under Vista 64, I take it there will be Vista 64bit driver support for the RED Rocket, correct?

 

[Jarred Land]

hello

 

[luffy]

Testing 1.2.3...