Red response to their customers need for 4k editing, color correcting, grading, etc

[Gordon Prince]

PC side, affordable, 4k, online editing, color correcting, grading, real time, when?

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

PC Side:

4k RAW -> SD quicktimes -> Avid -> EDL -> Automatic Duck with Combustion & REDCine for 4k RGB DPXs -> Grade -> Replace footage with 4k source footage -> Change Workspace size -> Hit Render.

Swap the words "Combustion" with "AE", "Nuke", "Fusion" or any other resolution independent color grading application as needed. (Fusion even has built in OMF and EDL support.)

 

[Roberto B]

this time i won't ignore you just because i appreciate 99,99% of your useful inputs.. go ahead.. can you elaborate the summary, gavin greenwalt? thx

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I won't ignore you either in this instance.

Shoot 4k Raw. Create SD Quicktimes out of REDCine. Import the SD Quicktimes into Avid or Premiere. Edit as if it was normal DV Footage. Export an EDL from the editor. Load the EDL into REDCine and export your 4k RGB Material.

Load the EDL into Combustion or AE or Fusion using Automatic Duck or native import/transfer options depending on your software.

Relink all the quicktimes from the editor's SD quicktimes to the REDCine 4k RGB (or REDQuick RAW files). Change the footage and workspace size to 4k. (*Bonus points if you relink the SD footage as a proxy file*) (*Triple bonus points if you write a script to do it all automatically.)

Grade.

Render.

Grading won't be real time but that's just the nature of things on the cheap aint it?

 

[Antoine Baumann]

Would it be an adventage or possible to do offline edit in Premiere with the SD proxy, then when you're done with REDCINE, replace the SD proxy with the full 4K RGB, open in a new premiere project in 4K, do conform with the render of the offline edit, and then open the project in After effects for color grading.

antoine.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I twould be possible and an advantage in that the datarate of DV is a few MBs as opposed to having to stream 30MBs of REDCode RAW or 50-90MBs for REDCode RGB.

You would be able to get by with a slower network.
Slower Hard Drives
Less Processing power.
Native Codec support (with Premiere Pro 1.5 at least nont DV footage is slow and Avid is picky).
All of your existing SD infrastructure but deliver 4k.

The disadvantages are obvious:
Render times to convert to SD.
Possible difficulties switching out Proxies with the full 4k if you don't write scripts and tools for yourself.

 

[Emery Wells]

Oh Gavin i wish it were so easy. Red has stated numerous times that REDCINE will not import EDLs. You have to export *all* your footage at whatever online format you are going to use if you plan on using the workflow you described.

Thats why Scratch is one of the only games in town right now because it can do the conform from the R3D files.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

??

RED has said multiple times that REDCine will export data based on a pull list.

It'll export the whole shot. But that's easier for the EDL importer to deal with anyway.

It would awesome if REDCine could export specific clips with header/tail slates and modify the EDL's i/o points respectively. I even emailed Graeme about it last year before REDCine was even announced to ask for just such a tool.

The official word was "Pull lists". Unless you have some inside information.

--
Also you don't have to export it even necessarily that's what REDQuick is for isn't it? Just like Cineform. (And yes cineform works inside of combustion).

 

[Mike Prevette]

Just get your script writing intern to ingest an EDL or XML list and force RedCine to only export what you need, or trim full DPX stacks from RedCine after its done processing each shot. Should actually be easy cause your dealing with a still frame stack at that point.

_mike

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Just get your script writing intern to ingest an EDL or XML list and force RedCine to only export...

_mike

But I'm the in house 'script writing/Math/Physics intern'.

I knew all those extra curricular math and programming lessons would come back to haunt me.

 

[GlennChan]

Red has stated numerous times that REDCINE will not import EDLs.

Like Gavin, I believe it's the opposite. HD for indies.com has a small amount of info on Redcine / Red Pull List... though there isn't that much info on Redcine right now.

2- I'm not really sure what the point of 'affordable' 4k editing is when it's unlikely that you'd be delivering 4k.

 

[Barend Onneweer]

PC side, affordable, 4k, online editing, color correcting, grading, real time, when?

You should probably be more specific. What's your definition of "affordable"? When you say online editing do you want to monitor 4k? Whan you say color correcting do you settle for Premiere Pro's internal CC and when you say "real time" do you mean realtime preview in 1k or 2k, or do you want 4k RT?

Bar3nd

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

PC Side:

4k RAW -> SD quicktimes -> Avid -> EDL -> Automatic Duck with Combustion & REDCine for 4k RGB DPXs -> Grade -> Replace footage with 4k source footage -> Change Workspace size -> Hit Render.

Why not this one:

4K Raw -> Cineform 4K or 2K files -> Premiere Pro -> cut & use filters & transitions -> hit render, if needed and/or export to what ever format you like

Monitoring in 4K or 2K directly in Premiere (using "fit" in monitor window or "100%" when closer examination of footages is nedded), or use an external monitor at will (this requires some hardware such as AJA Xena card).

The remaining question is the transition from 4K raw to Cineform files, but otherwise the workflow is clear.

 

[Kevin Halverson]

There is currently no clear evidence that a path from .r3d to CF will be developed, but that would certainly open up some interesting possibilities should it occur. Frankly, I myself don't have much call for 4k finishing (yet), but a 2k path is something that I will need very soon. Just got a quote on a SCRATCH hardware/software solution and for now, that is our plan.

 

[SalaTar]

Cineform works with IRIDAS...Scratch may be something out of touch

 

[Antoine Baumann]

You Should be able to render to any codec install on your hardware from REDCINE, so why not Cineform 2k 444. But depending on how many hours you have shot, it might be quite a lot of HDD space.

antoine.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

...2k 444...

antoine.

2k 444???

The answer could be found at:

Just tell people that the RED camera shoots 4K RAW from which you can create 4K RGB, 2K RGB, or 1080P 4:4:4, or whatever else you want in data or video. I don't believe the term "4:4:4" applies beyond HD video anyway. Once you're talking about 2K data files, the correct term would be "RGB". But certainly, 1080P 4:4:4 is an option.

LINK >>

 

[Kevin Halverson]

You Should be able to render to any codec install on your hardware from REDCINE, so why not Cineform 2k 444. But depending on how many hours you have shot, it might be quite a lot of HDD space.

antoine.

I don't believe that this is true. From what I have seen of REDCINE, it has a very finite (and predefined) number of output formats. I agree, it would be nice, but I don't hold much hope for this being the case.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

I don't believe that this is true. From what I have seen of REDCINE, it has a very finite (and predefined) number of output formats. I agree, it would be nice, but I don't hold much hope for this being the case.

Hi Kevin,

Just fyi - REDCINE will output to any Quicktime codec that is installed on your system. So, while I have not specifically tried Cineform, it should (dangerous word) work.

By the way - nice to see you yesterday. : )

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Joel Kaye]

REDCINE will output to any Quicktime codec

That's a relief. But you're right, "should" is a dangerous word

RedCine is GPU based, correct? If so, that would mean everyone will need a compatible card. Recommendations for good performance? Are we talking nVidia or AJA/Blackmagic?