Red Resolutions VS Storage Space

[Jesse Lyon]

Hey everyone,

Just wondering if anyone has any information on the 4kHD resolution.

I'm about to start a TV series shooting Red, we budgeted our Post for 2k footage coming in, getting 15TB of storage now the production might shoot 4K which would mean a 400% increase of capacity needed.

We are looking at 4kHD as an alternate.

Resolutions:
4K 16:9 (4096 x 2304)
4K 2:1 (4096 x 2048)
4KHD (3840 x 2160)
2k 16:9 (2048 x 1152)

The 4kHD resolution is smaller but I was told that the file size is 1/4 the size of 4K 16:9 is this true?

and would there be any issues in going with 4KHD down the road if it is a better file size to work with?

any feedback would be much appreciated.

 

[Paul Leeming]

4KHD (3840 x 2160) is only a bit smaller than full 4K (4096 x 2304) in frame size so they won't be anywhere near 25% of 4K's file size.

Probably someone was thinking about how 4KHD downconverts easily and sharply to 1920 x 1080 (which IS 25% of 4KHD exactly) to give you the best possible starting point for final output at HDTV size.

Other than that there's no issues, in fact it allows you to play back 100% of frame view at 1920 x 1080 from dual link HD-SDI from camera at 4:4:4 for capture to HDCAM-SR or other format as necessary. As long as the image is exposed properly (with optional curves set in camera) this will give you a very nice working image almost live from set (1080p is available out of camera ONLY on playback, not live).

You should definitely shoot some variant of 4K though, as the downconvert oversampling will give you a remarkable picture, as well as giving true Super35 depth of field characteristics. Worth the extra storage space IMHO.

HTH

Paul

 

[David Wyatt]

If you or anyone you know has an iPhone just get the free app called "iSee4K" - it's got a section called "4KStore" where you can put all your desired settings in (4K/4K HD; 16:9/ 2:1; RedCode 28/Redcode 36; 23.98/24/25/29/97/50/60 fps) - it then works out the storage for you.

You didn't say what your project timebase would be but a quick look at iSee4K tells you that 1 hour of 4K 16:9 footage recorded at 25fps in RedCode 28 gives you 98.44 GB, whereas the same settings with 4KHD gives you 83.50 GB (roughly 15% saving on storage I think). 2K footage on the other hand gives you just 26.37 GB but the image won't look anywhere near as good and you won't have your lovely 35mm DOF. 3K footage as a compromise would give you 54.49 GB of storage, but personally wherever possible I'd capture in 4K so if you're worried about storage issues I'd go for 4K HD (it's quicker for transcodes too if you're doing any of that). If your project is for the small screen there's really not much to worry about with shooting 4KHD as opposed to the full 4K (the same goes for RedCode 28 - it'll save you a lot on storage too and the difference between RedCode 28 & 36 is hard to see on the small screen).

 

[Ed Watkins]

Just a quick note;

RECODE is a variable bit rate codec. iSee4k uses an averages approach to establish the data rate (I did a series of tests on high complexity scenes, low complexity scenes, and with lens cap on, at the different settings then averaged them for each setting).

The space estimates are therefore just that, estimates, but they should get you in a pretty close ballpark.

I'd recommend 4K or 4KHD Redcode 28.

 

[Tim Bradley]

Isee4k for Macbookpro ??

Isee4k for Macbookpro ??

Hi Ed,

Is there any chance you will ever make iSee4k to run on a Macbookpro as I don't have an iphone?

Thanks, Tim.

 

[Ed Watkins]

Hi Ed,

Is there any chance you will ever make iSee4k to run on a Macbookpro as I don't have an iphone?

Thanks, Tim.

I've been toying with the idea of converting the code for the desktop I might re-vist the idea when I have a weekend free, stay tuned.

Bizarrely enough I don't have an iPhone either, and won't be getting one 'till verizon have it (I hate AT&T with a passion) I run my own app on the SDK simulator.

I do have a network of beta test iPhone monkeys though which I might increase the size of for a couple of apps I have in the works.

 

[KStephens]

RECODE is a variable bit rate codec.

I'm curious, are there only two options for the datarate - RC28 and RC36? It seems like, when shooting in 2K, it could go lower than in 4K.

 

[Brook Willard]

If you're going to shoot 2K all the time, the RED is probably not the best camera for your show.

Shoot quad HD [4K HD] for broadcast. Trust me.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Follow Brook's advice. 4KHD is a wonderful mode if you're shooting for any 1080p HD as your delivery format.

Only shoot 2K when you absolutely have to. IMO, the only good reason to shoot 2K is for off-speed and only if you can't do it by shooting 3K.

Drives are cheap and if switching from 2K to 4K acquisition is putting your production in a bind, then you have much bigger problems. ...Just sayin' The REDCODE files are pretty small, even for shooting 4K 16:9, you will generate far more data than your acquired files throughout the post process. And if you're posting in 2K, the size of what is generated in post is going to be the same whether you shot in 4K or 2K.