RED Raven against Canon 1DX Mark II

[Marco Hanna]

If you are shooting any type of R3D, you will be cropping in unless you max out the resolution of the sensor. Only way around that on the current platform is to pick up a CF Weapon, shoot 6K R3D and 4K ProRes simultaneously. So yes, even the Scarlet-W has a crop factor, more so than the Weapon. You gave to think about it like this. Weapon, Scarlet-W, and Raven are bodies. They don't do much other than give it housing and processing. The heart of all three of the cameras is called Dragon. It's the same Dragon sensor on the three cameras but each have a different cut. Weapon has the full-fledged Super35mm Dragon sensor. It delivers 6K. Scarlet-W has a smaller cut of the 6K sensor to give it a 5K max resolution and the Raven has an even smaller cut to give it 4.5K max resolution.

So here's my advice. Don't let crop factors scare you. You'll get incredible performance off the Dragon sensor, regardless of the model you choose. I'm personally picking up a Raven and I am stoked about it. Just shoot the highest resolution possible in R3D and worry about delivery formats in post.

 

[Aaron Nanto]

If you are shooting any type of R3D, you will be cropping in unless you max out the resolution of the sensor. Only way around that on the current platform is to pick up a CF Weapon, shoot 6K R3D and 4K ProRes simultaneously. So yes, even the Scarlet-W has a crop factor, more so than the Weapon. You gave to think about it like this. Weapon, Scarlet-W, and Raven are bodies. They don't do much other than give it housing and processing. The heart of all three of the cameras is called Dragon. It's the same Dragon sensor on the three cameras but each have a different cut. Weapon has the full-fledged Super35mm Dragon sensor. It delivers 6K. Scarlet-W has a smaller cut of the 6K sensor to give it a 5K max resolution and the Raven has an even smaller cut to give it 4.5K max resolution.

So here's my advice. Don't let crop factors scare you. You'll get incredible performance off the Dragon sensor, regardless of the model you choose. I'm personally picking up a Raven and I am stoked about it. Just shoot the highest resolution possible in R3D and worry about delivery formats in post.

Thanks for the explanation - so in Raven's case, since it doesn't have a 4.5K FF option, unless you're shooting for 2.1:1, shooting in 4.5K would be useless (you'd have to shoot at 4KFF).

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

so in Raven's case, since it doesn't have a 4.5K FF option, unless you're shooting for 2.1:1, shooting in 4.5K would be useless (you'd have to shoot at 4KFF).

If you're not running out of media, why not always shoot at 4.5k and use the extra frame for re-framing side to side, or margin if you need to stabilize?

But you're right that going from 4kFF to 4.5k won't increase the height of the image.

 

[Marco Hanna]

Well, 4.5K would give you a wider image. Again, here's the crop. 4.5K 2.1:1 is 1.66x and 4KFF is 1.89X. I'd pick 1.66X all day long.

 

[Kip Evans]

One camera isn't going to be the magic bullet for everyone. Raven Vs. Canon 1DX MKII really isn't a fair comparison. The Canon is a high performance still camera that shoots pretty good video footage too. I own both a Canon 1DX and Scarlet X. I use them in very different ways. Since I'm also a professional photographer, I love that I can shoot top notch stills and video from the same camera. I shoot the 1DX a lot underwater and I switch back and forth between video and still modes through-out my dives. I carry both strobes and lights so that I can have the best of both worlds. The Scarlet shoots much nicer footage underwater, but I can't shoot stills in the same way with my RED. The Canon is also great for remote activities (like backpacking) where it would be impossible to haul all my RED gear, especially batteries. Sometimes it's nice to just shoot and go. I love the start-up speed of the Canon, especially with wildlife. Another huge bonus is that I own a ton of Canon Glass, which works well with both set-up's.

I'm really disappointed about the lack of C-Log, but hopefully it will be added in a firmware update. Both the RED and Canon fill different needs and while the Canon won't be my go to documentary camera, it will fill an important space in my production workflow. I'm looking forward to owning both a RED Scarlet W and a Canon 1DX MKII this year.

 

[Clayton Taylor]

Raven should be significantly cleaner than Scarlet Dragon, for two main reasons:
Expect to shoot approx 2000 iso clean.

... so help me God if you're lying...

 

[Marco Hanna]

I wouldn't say it will be significantly cleaner than Scarlet. The camera only has a STD OLPF, the sweet spot will be 800 ISO. I think usable, 3200 is the maximum I would ever be comfortable with. You'll see noise, for sure, but it's tightly packed noise that can easily be removed in post, or kept in if you like that look.

It's going to be a little less sensitive than Weapon and W because it's a physically smaller sensor. Doesn't take a scientist to figure out less light will hit the sensor
But by all means, the hardware to run the sensor is improved! So maybe we'll be blown away haha. Just look at Weapon and soon to hit Scarlet-W footage for an accurate sample. They use the same sensor!

 

[Darryl Harris]

If you're not running out of media, why not always shoot at 4.5k and use the extra frame for re-framing side to side, or margin if you need to stabilize?

But you're right that going from 4kFF to 4.5k won't increase the height of the image.

Just a tad bit confused here, are you saying shoot in 4.5k and you would later be able to in post concert that to the ratio 16:9 (what 4K FF captures) but just have the benefit of 4.5k over 4K?

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

If you're spending that sort of money, well, why choose second-best? I mean, if the Canon was maybe $3,000 I'd probably say, well, fair enough.

The Leica SL is a bit more than the Canon but it does shoot log - and even then I would ask you the same question: at that price point, do you not think that it's wiser to choose the 'real thing'?

 

[Aaron Nanto]

Just a tad bit confused here, are you saying shoot in 4.5k and you would later be able to in post concert that to the ratio 16:9 (what 4K FF captures) but just have the benefit of 4.5k over 4K?

There is no converting it....you will just be taking the full 4.5K image and positioning it within the UHD 16:9 frame.

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

Raven Vs. Canon 1DX MKII really isn't a fair comparison. The Canon is a high performance still camera that shoots pretty good video footage too. I own both a Canon 1DX and Scarlet X. I use them in very different ways.

Yes, they are built for different things. But when you're talking about 1Dx video footage—it's important to remember that it is miles away from the 4k files that the current 1Dc delivers, and soon the 1Dx mkII too.

I'm guessing that the 1Dx mkII will deliver more resolution than the Raven. You don't have the flexibility of high bit depth files with the Canon, but otherwise the codec is good with no compression artifacts.

Also, the 1Dx mkII seems to promise significantly better shadow recovery (better DR) than the mkI. It will be interesting to see how things develop. This image deliberately underexposed by 5 stops and then push back up in post to see how the shadows look (open in new tab for full size).

This is the cameras .jpg performance, but that is also how the camera records video.

 

[Marco Hanna]

Shootijg in 4.5K delivers a wider image. You're going to capture more of the image in the left and right direction. This allows reframing in post or if you want,my downscaling to achieve a sharper image, less noise, etc. shooting in 4K FF would result in a cropped image, and if you deliver in 4K, what you shoot is what you shoot. No flexibility there. That's why cameras such as the Weapon Dragon and Weapon 8K are huge deals in the industry. So much room to move around in post or it will look insane if you downscale in post.

Just a tad bit confused here, are you saying shoot in 4.5k and you would later be able to in post concert that to the ratio 16:9 (what 4K FF captures) but just have the benefit of 4.5k over 4K?