Red proxies in FCP to Shake for FX

[CombatCupcake]

I just got a new client who is currently offlining using the proxies from the RED files.
This is my first foray into RED as a Compositor.
I need to work on a couple of shots in Shake.
I am looking for the simplest method for his editor to get me the few shots in a format I can work in with Shake, then output back to them.

I've heard DPX is the best route, but then read it may be very slow in Shake (I have never worked with DPX files). Is there another format that's easily exported from FCP/Crimson/Gluetools, read by Shake, and supports full RED quality that may work better? It really doesnt matter what it is so long as I can open and work with it on my Macbook Pro. Its only some paint fixes so I can DoD instead of working full 4k if thats an issue.

If DPX is the best, it seems Gluetools is the way to go. What would the workflow be for just a few shots? I know the start point of putting all the shots I need to get into 1 sequence then exporting an XML from FCP, beyond that I'm not sure the exact method.

Then once I complete the shots, what should I deliver back? He would like to get the shots back into the proxy form to continue the edit but I've heard that may not be possible. It doesnt matter what the format is, just so long as he has the full quality version, and preferably a way to mix it back into his offline.

Thanks

 

[John Tissavary]

There is no way to export Red footage from FCP (red qt proxies) and get the best quality results. The proxies are for offline only, they do not offer a real debayer. For full quality RedAlert, RedCine, or Scratch are the correct tools.

DPX is simply a Cineon file with metadata. It's the most commonly used 10bit file in the film biz (the format most film scanner/recorders use) and Shake can handle it without any problems... so can Gluetools, RedAlert, RedCine, and Scratch.

You cannot render out QT proxies from Shake, and there is absolutely no point in doing so. You can write out DPX from Shake, and the editor can bring that in via gluetools. Or you can write out a QT of some flavor (prores HD, blackmagic 10bit, cineform, etc...).

Handling Red post is not necessarily any more complicated than other workflows, but it's different, and due to limited tool options is perhaps a little less forgiving. I highly recommend you and the editor speak at length with someone that's dealt with this successfully before, because it sounds like there's confusion now, and the project may well be headed down the road to getting less than the best results from the footage.


jt

 

[CombatCupcake]

Thanks for replying.

I know you cant export from the proxies... so isnt the correct workflow to make a new sequence of just the shots to give me, export an XML into gluetools/redcine then export the DPX files from there?

Going back to him I can do DPX or like you said any standard QT... the issue was he would like to bring my cleaned files back into his offline edit, where everything else is the proxies. They have a workflow they planned out from just the offline edit, without taking VFX shots done externally into consideration. Thats where the confusion is, how to bring the finished full res shots into their offline sequences and continue smoothly into their planned pipeline. The editor hasnt worked with RED before either, nor DPX/VFX it seems.

 

[BigLu]

It sounds like it may be worth your time checking out Crimson workflow.

http://www.crimsonworkflow.com/
There is a demo version you can download in a few minuts
There is also a tutorial video. follow that for a few minutes.
If it is your answer GREAT you might be rolling.
If not its only going to take less than 10 minutes of your time.
It,
Allows you to import your FCP XML
which was done in any proxy you chose.
Then convert that to replace the proxies into R3D files.
Spits out a File that RedCine can read.
Send that into RedCine opens your Edit in RedCine and now you can First light and export what ever you please.
In your case sounds like DPX or Tiff files.

If it is not what you are looking for.
You will know in less than 10 minutes.
I use it I like it.

 

[John Tissavary]

Thanks for replying.

I know you cant export from the proxies... so isnt the correct workflow to make a new sequence of just the shots to give me, export an XML into gluetools/redcine then export the DPX files from there?

Going back to him I can do DPX or like you said any standard QT... the issue was he would like to bring my cleaned files back into his offline edit, where everything else is the proxies. They have a workflow they planned out from just the offline edit, without taking VFX shots done externally into consideration. Thats where the confusion is, how to bring the finished full res shots into their offline sequences and continue smoothly into their planned pipeline. The editor hasnt worked with RED before either, nor DPX/VFX it seems.

BigLu's suggestion of Crimson for FCP / RedCine is right on the money. Perhaps you're getting Gluetools confused w. Crimson? As far as I know, Gluetools is a plugin that allows import/export of DPX / Cineon file sequences in FCP.

I prefer to use Scratch where I can just import a cmx3600 edl generated by FCP from the project w. the proxies, do a conform there, Render one-light vfx plates for compositing, then bring those back into Scratch for the final conform & grade once the offline is locked. However Scratch may not be available to you, in which case Crimson / RedCine is a good way to go.

Regarding your specific situation, here's how I'd handle it:

1) Generate cut list into RedCine via Crimson (or do it manually if it's only a few shots - note the in/out points, manually find them in RedCine) and render them out as a DPX file sequence with a simple primary grade that brings them as close to the final grade as possible at this stage.

2) Composite/paint in Shake, render DPX sequence, or whatever is the highest quality format appropriate for this particular project. I prefer DPX sequences. Please note that Shake will strip all metadata out of the DPX files, so ISO, timecode, and other info will no longer be present. This may affect the online side of the pipeline, so check with the post supe to make sure they know this is going to happen.

3) Save DPX for final conform/assemle, and also use it to generate an offline version Quicktime (prores or whatever is convenient for editorial). This way editorial can do the offline cut without getting bogged down by uncompressed filesequences, and still have maximum quality files available for final output.

cheers,

jt

 

[Jimmy Gitonga]

Hmmm, interesting. I have been wondering how to get FCP sequence out in .R3D fills. Thanks a lot guys.

I might give Crimson a go and see.

 

[CombatCupcake]

I think I'm getting a handle on it. I am still a little confused about Gluetools and Crimson, It sounded like Crimson is a more general tool for FCP-RedCine, while Gluetools is specifically for reading/exporting DPX. If Crimson is capable of the DPX tools I need than I dont need Gluetools at all, correct? Or do I still need it to allow FCP to read DPX?

 

[Jim Hoffman]

Anyone know what the latest/safest operating system is for Shake?

 

[CombatCupcake]

Anyone know what the latest/safest operating system is for Shake?

Mac OSX and Linux. After about 2.5 its not supported on Windows.

 

[Kevin Stanley]

If you are conforming in FCP with DPX sequences you will need something like Gluetools to be able to conform as FCP does not read image sequences. If you are using AJA products they have a DPX to QT wrapper that should work for conform also.

Kevin

 

[John Tissavary]

I think I'm getting a handle on it. I am still a little confused about Gluetools and Crimson, It sounded like Crimson is a more general tool for FCP-RedCine, while Gluetools is specifically for reading/exporting DPX. If Crimson is capable of the DPX tools I need than I dont need Gluetools at all, correct? Or do I still need it to allow FCP to read DPX?

Right - Crimson is an FCP - RedCine workflow aide, and Gluetools is a plugin for FCP that allows it to deal with DPX and Cineon filesquences.

Whomever is reading the DPX files into FCPwill need gluetools. But I outlined a workflow that would eliminate the need for Gluetools altogether, since FCP is strictly being used for offline, and DPX would be overkill in an offline timeline. The key here is to render ProRes HQ version of the DPX sequence for the editors - then they won't need Gluetools.


cheers,

jt

 

[Stokestack]

If you export QTs from Shake for offlining, you have to use an 8-bit codec currently. There's a problem on Intel machines with color depth higher than 8 bits, and considerable foot-dragging on issuing a patch for it.

You can use DVCProHD, for example. ProRes is not going to work.

 

[Tim Sutherland]

If you are conforming in FCP with DPX sequences you will need something like Gluetools to be able to conform as FCP does not read image sequences. If you are using AJA products they have a DPX to QT wrapper that should work for conform also.

Kevin

Even if you're not using AJA products, the KONA 3 (I think) codec and wrapper tools work fine, I've used that to wrap dpx files in Leopard without the AJA.