RED Projector...

[Dominik Novotny]

It´s time to say goodbye to my good old Epson TW-5500! Still have my real3d glasses from reds 3d presentation at ibc2011. Will I be able to use them or do we need some kind of "laser-glasses"?

 

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

I am glad my 2nd Epic is coming soon, now I just need a good 3D rig it seems.

 

[Joseph Hutson]

I guess RED is using a 2k DLP chip now and waiting for Texas instruments 4k chips to become more readily available and options. maybe in the CES 2012

Forget not that RED didn't wait for someone else to create the chips inside the world most advanced cinema camera.

Me thinks Jannard and Co might have the resources to do something similar for the other end of our workflow...

 

[Eric Z]

... those 20 meter HDMI cables through our homes. Give it a wired option too, I have CAT5 all through my house, but long HDMI cables are... just wrong.

I'm afraid that neither HDMI nor CAT5 can support the data-rate required to transfer 4K material, unless heavily compressed.
Much less a wireless solution.

We need new cable standards. Perhaps DisplayPort v1.3 could deliver...

 

[David Battistella]

We have a very narrow target.... shoot 5K, post to 4K, deliver with REDray and display with the new RED projector, 2D and 3D. Easy stuff to understand.

Jim

That is not only really smart. It's going to be very hard to compete with...

I actually do not care what the other guys do. RED is where I have invested my $ an intellecual horsepower and spare time to help people. Along with many others who understand how big all of this is.

 

[Detlev Eller]

"After watching a demo of RED's laser projector I've been struggling to find a way to describe it. Comparing it to traditional professional systems is completely inadequate. I have never witnessed 3D that was as bright or brighter as the best 2D projections until now. It generated the best color, best dynamic range and best images I have ever seen in 3D or even 2D. When I learned we were watching at 1/4 of its total resolution I was speechless.

It was so clean and so vibrant the only thing I can compare it to is Cibachrome. That's it, a giant moving Cibachrome!""

Stephen Pizzo- Co-Founder of Element Technica and now partner of 3ality Technica.

Jim

... love, love, LOVE this ... (!)


... and the post before this !!! ... ;-) ... hehe

 

[Pascal Scheffers]

I'm afraid that neither HDMI nor CAT5 can support the data-rate required to transfer 4K material, unless heavily compressed.
Much less a wireless solution.

We need new cable standards. Perhaps DisplayPort v1.3 could deliver...

Yup. That's why I said redcode streaming box. Might cost a bit more than a cable, come to think of it... might not be good commercial product - oh well...

 

[Jonas Rejman]

Sadly I assume this isn't an announcement as defined in "we only announce things we're ready to ship"?

I never believed he would have the discipline of NOT spilling beans...
I suspect its just way too much fun.

RED really teaches one to understand the true meaning of patience.
Now off to play with epics to make some 3D for that projector...

 

[Kyle Wright]

This is fantastic news about it being "sooner" rather than later. Seeing Tattoo at NAB and then the reel on 40 ft screen was an almost religious experience.

I'm hoping 4k content gets out to consumers faster than Blu Ray first did. Time will tell, and I'm sure Red will do it's part

Hopefully this push for 4k in the home gets the studios off their butts and they start putting out 4k material theatrically that ends up in our homes as the same resolution.

 

[Eric Z]

Hopefully this push for 4k in the home gets the studios off their butts and they start putting out 4k material theatrically.

+1 for that!!

 

[Kyle Wright]

I'm afraid that neither HDMI nor CAT5 can support the data-rate required to transfer 4K material, unless heavily compressed.
Much less a wireless solution.

We need new cable standards. Perhaps DisplayPort v1.3 could deliver...

Maybe Intel's Thunderbolt. Currently handles 20 Gbit/s (10 Gbit/s per channel) and should scale up to 100 Gbit/s. It's pretty crazy fast.

 

[Corey Smith]

Mr. Jannard,

I had a little argument with Art Feierman from projectorreviews.com
I told him that for me, 1080p is really only good when stretched up to 55". For anything more than that, it requires a higher resolution projection to stay sharp and enjoyable.
He argued that he could see more detail on 100" with 1080p material.
I told him "sure, 100" screen will get you more immersed in the footage, but it looks rather blurry projected on this size."

My point is - I can't wait for better home theater projectors, and if RED is going to bring the rest of the industry to a fight, it means we consumers win.
It seems there's a little confusion of what is considered 4K. 3840x2160 or 4096x2304. The CE world is settling on the former.
Where does RED stand on this matter?

Totally disagree with you, but to each their own. I have had 720p and and 1080p projectors and on my 9ft screen both look plenty sharp. In fact, when I had my 720p projector (a Sharp DT-500, no put intended. lol) displayed at 12' diagonal my friend who had a 42" 1080p came over to play X-Box 360 own it after just playing it on his tv and his jaw hit the floor. First thing he said? "I can't believe how sharp and clear it is." I know I've definitely never thought it looked blurry with any HD content at any half way normal viewing distance. Sharpness depends more on viewing distance, not resolution. If you thought 1080p looks blurry at 100" then you are too close for your eye sight; either that, or the projector wasn't well focused or the panels (if not DLP) were misaligned. You can't be at the same distance with a 100" screen as a 55" and expect it to be the same sharpness. 1.5-2x the screen width is a good distance for 1080p to look nice and sharp.

Also, it doesn't make sense to say 1080p is only good for upto 55" when 4k is displayed on 40+ foot wide screens and is only 4+ times the resolution of 1080p. By your definition it should only be good a bit past 110". However, that is clearly not the case. Viewing distance is key. Also, DLPs are inherently sharper than LCD projectors and SXRD/LCOS since they are single panel (Obviously I'm excluding 3 chip DLPs). 480p can be about as sharp as 1080p on a 110" screen. How? Move further back. lol. Although you need to be about 3x the screen width, but still. lol.

Here is a close up shot of Scorpion from Mortal Kombat on my previous 720p DLP 110" screen before I upgraded to the JVC RS15:

Here is my current 1080p on the same screen (which btw is nothing compared to how it looks in person):

Anyway. I can't wait for the home version of the Red Projector? Will this projector be under $5k? Under $10K? Any idea of ansi lumens or on/off contrast ratio? Thanks

 

[sean daniels]

Hmmm, Based on the gentlemen who saw the demo. He said that he saw it at 1/4 resolution. which means the demo was only in 1080P. 4x that resolution would put the projector final resolution at 4k. Now there are only 4 companies that have 4k display chips: 1: Sony LCOS 4k Chips. 2: JVC LCOS 4k Chips, 3: Epson 3LCD 4k Chips, and finally 4: Texas Instrument 4k DLP Chips. So I wonder if RED has developed their own display chip like they did to the image capture sensor with RED Cameras. if not, I assume this projector will be using DLP 4k Chips since I don't think JVC, Sony, nor Epson would OEM their chips to a third party like RED. what do you guys think? A RED Laser 4k DLP projector system? Finally, I wonder if you have to use a special screen like silver screen to view the image since it is a passive 3D system. It would be awesome if we don't have to. make your prediction!

PS. Jim, if you are reading this, do you think that we should add another forum section for the red laser projector just like the other red products, i.e, red ray, epic, ect...? that way its easier to keep track of this topic at one place. thanks

 

[Kyle Wright]

Being laser based, does that mean the projector can natively display 2.35 , 1.85, 1.37, etc. material? At least with LCD/SXRD projectors, you normally get black bars projected on the top and bottom (if 2.35) or sides (if 1.37). Since LCD/SXRD/LCOS operate by blocking light, and therefore still project the semi-blocked black bars, it seems to me that a laser based system could selectively just not shoot any light in those areas, so no semi-black bars. For instance, get a 2:35 screen and when you project a scope movie, it'll fill the whole thing. Watch a flat movie, and it'll just project the light into the area that fills the 1:85 area, leaving the sides completely unlit. Hope that makes sense...

Now there are only 4 companies that have 4k display chips: 1: Sony LCOS 4k Chips. 2: JVC LCOS 4k Chips, 3: Epson 3LCD 4k Chips, and finally 4: Texas Instrument 4k DLP Chips. So I wonder if RED has developed their own display chip like they did to the image capture sensor with RED Cameras. if not, I assume this projector will be using DLP 4k Chips since I don't think JVC, Sony, nor Epson would OEM their chips to a third party like RED. what do you guys think?

You're assuming they're using someone else's tech. Maybe it's not even LCD, LCOS, or DLP based (it could be similar to Microvision's laser beam-steering technology, or something else entirely). Anyway, even if it were, it could be sourced from any of these companies. Epson provides chips to Panasonic for their home theater projectors. Sony builds CMOS sensors for their competitor's DSLRs (Nikon), so I don't see why they wouldn't sell LCOS chips to a competitor.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

We have a very narrow target.... shoot 5K, post to 4K, deliver with REDray and display with the new RED projector, 2D and 3D. Easy stuff to understand.

Jim

We love this type of TARGET...

 

[Eric Z]

Totally disagree with you, but to each their own. I have had 720p and and 1080p projectors and on my 9ft screen both look plenty sharp. In fact, when I had my 720p projector (a Sharp DT-500, no put intended. lol) displayed at 12' diagonal my friend who had a 42" 1080p came over to play X-Box 360 own it after just playing it on his tv and his jaw hit the floor. First thing he said? "I can't believe how sharp and clear it is." I know I've definitely never thought it looked blurry with any HD content at any half way normal viewing distance. Sharpness depends more on viewing distance, not resolution. If you thought 1080p looks blurry at 100" then you are too close for your eye sight; either that, or the projector wasn't well focused or the panels (if not DLP) were misaligned. You can't be at the same distance with a 100" screen as a 55" and expect it to be the same sharpness. 1.5-2x the screen width is a good distance for 1080p to look nice and sharp.

Also, it doesn't make sense to say 1080p is only good for upto 55" when 4k is displayed on 40+ foot wide screens and is only 4+ times the resolution of 1080p. By your definition it should only be good a bit past 110". However, that is clearly not the case. Viewing distance is key. Also, DLPs are inherently sharper than LCD projectors and SXRD/LCOS since they are single panel (Obviously I'm excluding 3 chip DLPs). 480p can be about as sharp as 1080p on a 110" screen. How? Move further back. lol. Although you need to be about 3x the screen width, but still. lol.

Anyway. I can't wait for the home version of the Red Projector? Will this projector be under $5k? Under $10K? Any idea of ansi lumens or on/off contrast ratio? Thanks

Corey,
Think about it this way:
There are 15" laptops with 1080p. They are extremely sharp, and you view them from as close as 20cm without losing the uniformity of the picture.
Now stretch that resolution to a 26" LCD, then stretch it to a 32" LCD TV, then further to a 47" TV and even to 55" TV.
To get the same experience you perceived on that 15" laptop, you'd have to go further back, roughly 3.5-4m between your eyes and the center of the screen.

This distance is what most folks have in their apartments, including myself.
I can't go any further back because there's a wall behind my couch, and I have no intention of breaking this wall just so I can buy a larger TV or projector screen.

My point is: Since most folks cannot go further back with their couch in the living room, yet they have a need for a larger screen - their only option is to have a higher-resolution screen.
You actually want to stay close enough to the screen, and be immersed in the film. 1080p simply isn't enough for anything larger than 55".

 

[Kris Anderson]

Hmmm, Based on the gentlemen who saw the demo. He said that he saw it at 1/4 resolution. which means the demo was only in 1080P. 4x that resolution would put the projector final resolution at 4k.

Not necessarily. In live events we often "dim" down large LED screens to a fraction of their overall output capability so they don't dominate the other light sources. It's very possible the RED projector demo was running at a quarter of it's possible light output, not image resolution. I don't imagine Team Red would ever project 1080 as a demo.... it's just not what they're about.

Jim has always said 1080 is not enough. I just can't see him showing off his new projector at 1080. Not his style.

 

[John Bannister]

Jims original post clearly states "1/4 resolution" ...not light output

 

[John Bellari]

We have a very narrow target.... shoot 5K, post to 4K, deliver with REDray and display with the new RED projector, 2D and 3D. Easy stuff to understand.

Jim

Purely Genius Vision... leave nothing to chance from the lens to the final 3D projection in 617...

I still wish a personal 3D headset was on the list for 2012, but your Team could probably do that in their sleep...

Kudos!

 

[Yuval Shrem]

"After watching a demo of RED's laser projector I've been struggling to find a way to describe it. Comparing it to traditional professional systems is completely inadequate. I have never witnessed 3D that was as bright or brighter as the best 2D projections until now. It generated the best color, best dynamic range and best images I have ever seen in 3D or even 2D. When I learned we were watching at 1/4 of its total resolution I was speechless.

It was so clean and so vibrant the only thing I can compare it to is Cibachrome. That's it, a giant moving Cibachrome!""

Stephen Pizzo- Co-Founder of Element Technica and now partner of 3ality Technica.

Jim

Congratulations Jim!

I've been secretly hoping for this kind of news from you.
This is so exciting!!! (I can barely contain myself)
Can't wait to see this thing with my own eyes...

Long-time RED believer,

Yuval