Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED PRO Primes vs. LEICA Summilux-C Primes

Ferarris vs Glass... hmmm strange comparison but I get your point, I just don't agree with it. Flashy fast cars for red carpet posing attention seekers is hardly the same as tools for artists.

Sure my expectation of "reasonable" cost glass @ T1.3 in a small form factor is unrealistic at present... but so was a 4k digital 35mm camera @ $20k a few years back... surely glass will have to appear at price points and features that complement the camera they are being used on.

If Leica would sell a set of 5 lenses for $40k - $50k that would still send the message that they are an expensive tool for professionals and they would still restrict mass production on a large scale.

What are they trying to say with their ultra high price point?
 
129.000,00 Euro is the last price from yesterday's Band Pro email offer to me (meter scales).

Leica - Set of 8 Leica 4K

Set Leica Summilux-C™ 4K Lenses T1.4.

Focal Length 18mm, 21mm, 25mm, 35mm, 40mm, 50mm, 75mm,100mm.

Band Pro is currently accepting a refundable deposits of 5% to reserve a set of Leica lenses.

Take it or leave it!
 
Modestly priced at just under $20k per lens. Probably not much economy of scale on volume with these as they would be hand made anyway.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
129.000,00 Euro is the last price from yesterday's Band Pro email offer to me (meter scales).

Leica - Set of 8 Leica 4K

Set Leica Summilux-C™ 4K Lenses T1.4.

Focal Length 18mm, 21mm, 25mm, 35mm, 40mm, 50mm, 75mm,100mm.

Band Pro is currently accepting a refundable deposits of 5% to reserve a set of Leica lenses.

Take it or leave it!
Click to expand...

Every day that passes I'm closer to do the crazy thing Sanjin, and you are not helping, ha ha.

5% down is very reasonable, but the extreme long wait is unfortunate ;~(.

Fact is that I really never have been presented with such a full set of lenses with so many answered wishes, again Fantastic Job on Leica's part to move forward with this project and to those evolved as well as Band Pro.
 
KETCH ROSSI said:
Every day that passes I'm closer to do the crazy thing Sanjin, and you are not helping, ha ha.

5% down is very reasonable, but the extreme long wait is unfortunate ;~(.

Fact is that I really never have been presented with such a full set of lenses with so many answered wishes, again Fantastic Job on Leica's part to move forward with this project and to those evolved as well as Band Pro.
Click to expand...

Ketch,

you can' make mistake,

Delivery is early 2011 if you reserve them during next week.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
Ketch,

you can' make mistake,

Delivery is early 2011 if you reserve them during next week.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know Sanjin, if any one here shares the same passion and respect for Leica glass, that is me, so I think I will do it !!

Even so I',m still contemplating the Leica S, or at list a way of mounting the S glass on Canon 1Ds IV and Red, he he.
 
Ketch, Leica S glas is a gorgeous...


Curran, they do not sell individual lenses, so choose a set or nothing...
 
I don't know but if they started receiving a load of intelligent letters stating our plead to easy back on the greed, I mean come on they have brand identity and they can still be expensive but how much money to they really have to make?

Very few people are in the position to be able to guarantee being about to get the ROI out of such a purchase... so mainly large rental houses, studios and large production companies...

Not trying to whine, but I know it sounds like I am... I just hate it when great tools are out of reach, and I really don't mind working hard for my tools of the trade... yes I know just have to get better at what I do :-)

If RED hadn't stepped up... well where would we be now?
 
With the amount of digital manipulation that goes into each and every movie from the highest budget blockbuster to the greenest of indie features the choice of lens to use is vastly overated these days.

My biggest worry with such lenses is what happens in a couple of years time when people are shooting on Epic 645's and a new line of larger lenses comes out to cater for them? Of which you can basically guarantee Red will have some and probably at about $40k. If large format digital cinematography becomes the norm in the future (Which I believe it will given this is truly where digital has an edge over film in terms of cost) then these lenses suddenly have a shorter shelf life. I also think that the advances we're seeing year to year with sensor technology means that having faster lenses will be less and less of an issue. So to sell their lenses as future proof is a little misleading if you ask me.

I'm sure they're great lenses, don't get me wrong. I just think that Leica could've sold hundreds maybe even thousands of sets if they'd priced it in line with the Alexa and Epic clients all around the world. Instead I'd guestimate they'll sell maybe 100 sets over the next 2 to 3 years?

The plain and simple fact of the matter is they do nothing new. They might improve slightly upon the best that's available but I don't imagine people being particularly bothered if they have Leica, Master Primes or Cooke S5's. Their business model is simply not destructive enough to the current market to make any kind of large scale impact and so the introduction of such a set seems kind of pointless to me.

Paul
 
D Fuller said:
Ever read Aesop's Fables? The one about The Fox and the Grapes?
Click to expand...
Lol, yeah but unlike the fox I genuinely don't want a set of these lenses. Also I didn't say the lenses weren't good. Just that from a business point of view I don't get entering into a saturated cottage industry market without having a draw that pushes aside your competitors. And frankly being a bit smaller and lighter isn't a draw that sets them aside completely. It's more of a bonus. Look at the facts. There is big money to be made making equipment for this industry if you understand how it has changed in recent years. It has changed to cater for individuals who want to own and shoot their own stuff. Red has basically created this and even companies such as Arri are responding with a cheaper more affordable camera in the Alexa. The point I was simply trying to make was that if Leica truly understood the current market they would've priced more aggressively in order to corner it. Not simply be another player.

Sanjin Jukic said:
Leica Summilux-C are not more expensive than other high speed sets like a MP, Cooke i/5 or high-end zooms from Angenieux or Fuji.

Also to know more about those lenses read at

Leica Cine Lens Saga, pages 32-37, Film & Digital Times issue 32-33 >>>
Click to expand...
Fair enough point Sanjin. See above though. I'm not really referring to their price with regards to other products, merely their lack of competitive ambition in a small market.

Paul
 
He he, the old Fox ;~)

Well, the lenses are not cheap, that is a fact, but neither are the other big brothers offerings, this is an investment and a serious one at that, which no one should do unless they have both the serious capital and most of all the need, and or possibility to put them at work, were the RPP's are still not widely accepted.

But as said over and over, I love the RPP's!! They are the absolute best value and High quality glass in the range and well above!
 
PaulClements said:
The point I was simply trying to make was that if Leica truly understood the current market they would've priced more aggressively in order to corner it. Not simply be another player. ...

... I'm not really referring to their price with regards to other products, merely their lack of competitive ambition in a small market.

Paul
Click to expand...

But isn't that a bit like saying that no one should produce hand-made furniture because there's a boatload of money to be made by mass-producing it as cheaply as possible in China?

I think Leica understands their place in the market very well. Mass-market is just not what the Leica brand is about. It's about uncompromising quality, usability, etc. Just look at their stills cameras, that's always been their market position.

And they're not betting the company on the Cine Primes, they're enhancing the brand. I'm fairly certain that Leica will make more money on its sale of lenses to Panasonic for their prosumer cameras than they ever will on the Cine Primes. But it's the reputation of products like the Cine Primes that make those licensing deals attractive to Panasonic et al.
 
KETCH ROSSI said:
In over twenty years of Photography and Cinematography experiences, I have come across and used just about literally every lens ever Manufactured, or close to it;~). In photography I have come to love Hassy by Zeiss, Leica, Nikon and Canon glass, and in Cinema the Arii/Zeiss Master Primes have taken my heart from their very first appearance, then here come the Red PRO glass, and it was love all over again!!

As I'm awaiting delivery of the Epic-X S35, I find my self looking very careful on my decisions for Glass, as this will not only have to satisfy my Cinema needs but also my Photographic needs for still images. Even so I look so forward to when my Epic 645 will be released, for now I have to make good with the S35 Brain for Photography, especially since I have now officially sold every 35mm and MF Still camera and lenses.

With this comes the decision of the glass, while I was to purchase the new Leica S and their current MF S series Leica glass, I have decided to wait and see if the Epic-X S35 will do for me, RED has already announced a Canon and Nikon mounts for the Epic S35, and we hope to see also a Leica "M" and "R" mount, sorry but Hassy has really lost me when they dropped Zeiss. I dreamed of a Leica S mount on the Epic 645 as soon as I played with the "S" series glass!!

But now down to what this post is about.. RED vs. LEICA in Cine lenses.

I admit that I, like many am a lover of Shallow DOF and super fast lenses, spoiled by the 1.2's of Canon latest line up of "L" glass, so I did wished that the RED PRO PRIME lenses were all T*1.3 or T*1.4, but T*1.8 is not bad at all, however what I have wished even more, since.. well, EVER, is a set of lenses of equal dimension, length, width, and front lens diameter with screw in filter thread, just for when I needed it, and off course to be as light weight as possible, while retaining and incredible image quality.

Well here come the LEICA SUMMILUX-C Primes, which have now answered all my wishes, literally, off course Price was a bit of a surprise but no so much, I did wish for a 10k to 12k per lens top price, but instead we got 20k to 22k per lens ;~(.

If RED was to make all their RED PRO PRIMES in equal qualities of the LEICA's what would their price be? 10k? 12k? 15k? or would they also be in the same price range of 20k to 22k? Well, we just don't know, simply cause they have not announced such a thing or interest in doing so, leaving users to have to make a choice, of either get the RED PRO PRIMES now or wait in line for the LEICA SUMILUX-C Primes and pay FIVE times as much!!

RED PRO PRIMES really do offer the absolute best choice, IMO, at their price point and well above, in all their aspect, Image Quality, Construction, Size and weight, which is not too different from the ARRI/ZEISS MASTER PRIMES, and off course their Good Looks, but I would love to have them the same size, same front element Threaded Diameter and same weight, yet I do understand how much more expensive and complicated it is to make a lens of different Focal, at high speed, of the same compact size, so I take gladly what is offered, which is an "INCREDIBLE DEAL"!!

But I must say that playing with the Leica Summilux-C Primes makes me really want a set of them, just simply put, stunning design, and if current plans continue to go well, I might end up getting a set, really a Fantastic job done by the designers KUDOS!!

The choice to go Leica here, is well beyond what same might call the LEICA Lovers, or the I got Money and want Leica stereotyping, this is simply a choice of having the Absolute Best Designed Cine Lenses to Date, not comparing Image Quality here, but simply their Design!! This goes so far as in to make this the absolute most Practical Lens set to use PERIOD!! I'm sure that all of those that have found them selves carrying different size Threaded Filters, and or Bellow MB adapters and the list goes on, will agree with me on this Indisputable argument.. Just really wish their were Priced more reasonably, not that I don't understand the difference form Volume Manufacturing to Hand Made products, just that with RED's RedVolution, we had hoped other would follow in the great Example that GREAT Glass don't NEED to be so DAM Expensive!! Nevertheless I wish LEICA all the Best, and I know they will do Extremely well, even Better then Arri's and Cooke's line up IMO.

Any way, if RED decides to make a RED PRO PRIME Set of equal specs of the LEICA SUMMILUX-C Primes they will have my money for a couple of sets immediately, if priced in the 10k per lens ;~)
Click to expand...

Con Tutto il rispetto che si meritano.
Non voglio farvi sentire male i vostri commenti senza senso. Ma PER FAVORE pensarci.

Everything i read of your nonsense tipping doesn't even deserve the smallest discussion.
Just one thing people. please think twice about posting when you are high.:sifone:
by the way here is one proof of what drugs can do. http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=51461951
 
Gustavo Penna said:
With ALL due respect sir.
Everything i read of your nonsense tipping doesn't even deserve the smallest discussion.
Just one thing people. please think twice about posting when you are high.:sifone:
by the way here is one proof of what drugs can do. http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=51461951
Click to expand...

Well, every one here knows very well that Im heavily Drugged on a daily basis, if I want to continue on walking amongst the leaving, so no surprise here :001_tt2:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top