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Red Primes and other Lens stuff @ L.A. User Group

Matt Uhry

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I'm just back from the L.A. Red User Group hosted by Kappa studios. The parts I checked out in detail were the Red Prime Demo and Jacek's room full of his Optitek products.

1. Red Prime Demo. ( only 35mm Lens )


Ted ( from Red ) started out with a discussion about some of Red's lens program's history and talked about how they thought the Red prime was in league with the best cine lenses, yet at a fraction of the cost.

There was a short demo comparing the Red 18-50 and the Red 35mm lens visually on a camera. Both lenses looked fine on the monitor, as one would expect - both being able to make a nice 720p image.

Then we were allowed a little bit of hands on with the Red Prime - build quality looked to be very good. The size and weight of this lens are not fully apparent when you see the pictures - It's a bit bigger and heavier than Ultraprimes or Cooke S4's. Size and weight wise made me think of the Cooke 15-40 T2. The 35mm was made with an internal floating focus element, a design which I believe should bring really good close focus performance.

Then there was a few minutes of unguided playtime with the lens. It looked to be very high resolution, mechanically excellent very good flare resistance, low distortion, moderate breathing, basically everything looked really good. If the 35mm is a good indication of the rest of the lenses and you are looking to buy a PL prime set: it's a no-brainer.

The only weird thing about the Red primes is how Red is marketing them. The talking points are more about 5k coverage than optical design philosophy or serviceability. The NAB demo and Red User Group seemed to run away from the only meaningful tests I can think of: Put them up directly against Ultra Primes, Master Primes and S4's and look at the pictures. Real world images, not on a projector.

2. Jacek from Optitek had his Pro Nikon mount on display. It uses a locking ring driven system to pull the lens snug to the mount. The Iris on G series lenses can be adjusted with a simple external ring. He had a Nikon 14-24 on it and it worked well. It's a vast improvement on the stock Nikon camera mount - highly recommended if you are shooting with Nikons.

3. Jacek also had the prototype of the Optimator
a flange focal depth checking device for the Red and other PL mount cameras. It works by projecting a focus pattern onto the cameras cmos sensor. You rack the mount's adjustment ring back and forth until you can see the highest number on the scale. It's a bit better in theory than the IBE Null Lens because you can use it anywhere - you don't need an infinity target, it gives a readable numeric scale to judge your accuracy, and the Optimator has a provision to see the sides of the frame also which lets you know that your mount / sensor are not askew in some other way. It's self powered with an internal battery or by a cable.

I want to have a look at Uniq optics Diascope and see what's up with that. Probably next week.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Thanks for the report.

It sounds like Jacek's Optitek Pro Nikon Mount is a good solution for the Nikon 14-24 if the iris can be adjusted with a simple external ring. The focusing will still be a less than pro aspect since it goes from about 4ft to infinity in a very small barrel movement.

The Optimator sounds very promising as well, particularly when the Red Null costs $1600 plus tax.
 
Thanks for the report.

It sounds like Jacek's Optitek Pro Nikon Mount is a good solution for the Nikon 14-24 if the iris can be adjusted with a simple external ring. The focusing will still be a less than pro aspect since it goes from about 4ft to infinity in a very small barrel movement.

The Optimator sounds very promising as well, particularly when the Red Null costs $1600 plus tax.

Yeah - I think Able Cine missed the price point on the Red Null. If you were going to spend $1600 why not just a little more and get something that's fully featured.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Thanks for the report.

It sounds like Jacek's Optitek Pro Nikon Mount is a good solution for the Nikon 14-24 if the iris can be adjusted with a simple external ring. The focusing will still be a less than pro aspect since it goes from about 4ft to infinity in a very small barrel movement.

The Optimator sounds very promising as well, particularly when the Red Null costs $1600 plus tax.
No try 2.5 feet to inf about 1/ 8 inch rotation from 2.5 feet to inf not very much focus. The cine version Ruby 1.5 ft 1.8 ft 2ft 3ft 5ft 10ft and inf also focus goes cine direction.
Stuart
 
The only weird thing about the Red primes is how Red is marketing them. The talking points are more about 5k coverage than optical design philosophy or serviceability. The NAB demo and Red User Group seemed to run away from the only meaningful tests I can think of: Put them up directly against Ultra Primes, Master Primes and S4's and look at the pictures. Real world images, not on a projector.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

That's what I want to see. Real world tests with data on aperture, distance to subject, breathing, depth of field, bokah etc.. Curious to see what a 7 blade iris looks like compared to 9....

So far the RPP stills from Jim and Jarred look really nice but they also seem to have a VERY narrow depth of field (even for what I would assume are wide open shots). At 5K it would be even narrower. Makes for difficult focus pulls.

M
 
Not sure why you guys are "blaming" RED and our marketing for not seeing the tests you guys wanna see... Its got nothing to do with marketing... I have given whoever wants to come to RED to shoot the lenses an open invitation... many have come, such as Roberto who shot a bunch of stuff covering most of what your asking for Mark, and even posted videos in his Mania Thread...

I am not gonna sit in a room and do a shoot a shoot-out between a buncha lenses myself, as that would be a little biased and artificial no matter how honest I was or pretended to be.

I even offered for the SALT test to come to RED and shoot on the Epic 5k Prototype with Mysterium-X to see how Our lenses, and ALL the other lenses in the test look on a 5k sensor, and Evin refused that offer....

you guys wanna see something.. come and see it :) .... or ... wait a few weeks till the sets are out in the wild.
 
To be clear, I would have loved to see all these lenses on the Epic (As well as just geeking out) but I felt that doing SALT at Red would make for an uncomfortable environment for the other lens manufacturers. I will however ask each of them individually if it's possible to bring their lenses down to test on Epic, and whoever goes for it, it will be done.
 
Don't worry about it Evin.. If it makes you uncomfortable I don't want to put you in that situation... I don't fully understand the reasons but its your test and you know details/politics that I don't, so it's cool... I just hate to read people try and state that it's a "marketing" decision by RED not to show real footage tests from the lenses... That's just not really fair....
 
Well thanks for posting those images Jarred, it is very much apreciated.
I havn't found roberto's thread yet but I'll start looking for it now :)

Emmanuel
 
I've got no opinion on what is or isn't a marketing decision. It's been hard enough to get all these disparate company's to commit unfinished prototypes to a test that includes lenses created by the Co. that makes the camera. My only motivation for not holding SALT at Red is a desire to test more than one set of lenses (The RPPs).
 
I just hate to read people try and state that it's a "marketing" decision by RED not to show real footage tests from the lenses... That's just not really fair....

Jarred, sorry if that came off the wrong way. If for some reason we can't get SALT underway soon I'll get down there and see what beauty can be found in Reds parking lot. ( And also shut up! )

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Any time Matt.. you are always welcome @ RED... and yeah.. the parking lot is a little dull, but hey, the milk girls didn't turn out so bad :)
 
Dont worry Richard.. I missed it first time around myself. He put links in the very first post.
 
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