Red power cable for block batteries

[David Wyatt]

Does anyone know if Red sell a power cable to connect the Red to a block battery (I'm guessing that a typical 12V block battery that you'd get at a rental house would suffice)? I checked on the Red Store - they have a 10ft DC cable (but no further details) and an Auxillary Power Cable ("coming soon", but no picture or further details). Are any Red owners out there powering their cameras with block batteries or is it all RedBricks or mains power?

David Wyatt.

 

[laperal@info.com.ph]

Hi Dave,

Various replies I got re 12V battery issues:

Per Brian (June 07, 2007) :
OK to use 12 V, V- lock or if they are Anton Bauer you will need an adapter. Battery should be over 100 watts, as the camera needs approx 65-75 watts.
The battery plate and magazine holder are included in the "basic production package" .

Battery wiring: LEMO FGG.2B.306.CLAD62Z. If your looking for what the positive (red) and negative (black) wires should transfer down the cable when you open it up, Red and Orange wires are positive, and the Brown and Black wires go to the Negative. Do not try and put power through a single wire, the amps must be divided amongst all 4 wires. You will see two other wires, a Green and a Yellow, those are for Battery bus clock and data.

On the Lemo, Pin 1 and 2 are +12VDC Batt . Pin 3 and 4 are –12VDC Batt . Again, make sure you use both pins for each polarity. Here is the Lemo connector info: LEMO 6 pin, FGG.2B.306.CLAD62Z

IMPORTANT!!! please double check all your wiring and always use a meter. If you are not sure about anything, let a professional handle this. It is not worth turning your camera into a brick by making a simple wiring error.

Dave, consult with one of the Red gurus before finalizing, it seems Red's DC input power supply is not polarity protected. A nice suggestion to Red engineers. Don't you think so?

Oli
Red #675

 

[jbeale]

Curious- is it typical for cameras to have a polarity-protected supply? That is a safety feature but it means extra space, cost and heat dissipation, and it creates additional failure modes. Unless you are making your own cable, I thought it would be impossible to connect the power backwards. If you are making your own cable, presumably you know which way is up...

If you are making your own cable for connection to various batteries, maybe the cable itself should have a polarity protection circuit.

 

[laperal@info.com.ph]

DC reverse polarity protection is quite simple, no big deal. I am sure the nice design engineers at Red will eventually incorporate this in future models.

Oli
Red #675

 

[Wes Printz]

Yes, You could run the camera from a standard 12V / 14.4V source, But, you should monitor your voltage. When the battery voltage drops below the cut off threshold, the camera will shut down with out warning. The RED Brick has a voltage monitoring circuit, which communuicates with the camera to indicate low voltage, allowing time to swap batteries.

I've not measured the current draw yet, but, it would appear to be around 6A based on the 60-75W rating mentioned above.

On the subject of people making their own cables, I have repaired a lot of devices for people that made their own, as they "knew what they were doing" I've also corrected their cables. Yes, Reverse polarity protection would only cost a few Dollars per unit for the device, add in the enginering cost, it would add up in the end, and put the repair dept out of business.

It goes with out saying that any voltage source to a device SHOULD have some form of protection in the event of excessive current draw, let's say a $2.00 Fuse to protect your investment

Wes

 

[Finner]

Pana tech

Do you know if a reverse polarity protection box can be made as a small add on that plugs into the body and then into the cable? I am pretty sure an add on like that would sell pretty well.

Hopefully though red rectify's this problem though by incorporating protection into the camera like other cameras.

 

[Scott Webster]

The RED Brick has a voltage monitoring circuit, which communuicates with the camera to indicate low voltage, allowing time to swap batteries.

Wes

That would explain the lack of battery % remaining indicator from anything other than a Red battery. The Red battery is feeding the camera this info?

So any other battery manufacturer would have to include the same circuit in their battery? or could this be included in a replacement battery mount?

 

[Wes Printz]

Finner,

Yes a small box could be made, but I feel it may be relatively unnecessary, as in the professional Image acquisition world, be it film or video, your power cables are or should be made by an experienced cable person. Not many devices have this incorporated, but to answer your question, I could take a USD $5.00 item, put in a box with a cable and some LEMO connectors and sell it on to you for a few dollars. I'd rather you spend your money in better places. 12VDC Power has been standardized for many years now. If you have someone making a cable for your camera, you'd better trust them.


Rocketeer,

From my experience, cameras like the 435, 235, F900 etc.. have voltage monitoring which reads the battery voltage. The newer Li-Ion batteries have smart circuitry inside to regulate the charge and "talk" to the chargers via their data lines to indicate charge completion. That’s why you have to have AB chargers for AB batteries, and IDX for IDX. It would appear RED has put some of this inside the camera to read the battery status on the camera. Similar to the IDX TK-E1 for checking the E-10 and E-7 Batteries. The Cable from the Battery plate carries both DC Power and Battery data.

The AB Hytrons have this built in on their batteries in the form of the LCD Display. My understanding is the circuitry and data is different between brands, no industry standard.

Hope this helps

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

it seems Red's DC input power supply is not polarity protected. A nice suggestion to Red engineers. Don't you think so?

Oli
Red #675

yes please!

 

[Stuart English]

Reading battery voltages

Reading battery voltages

That would explain the lack of battery % remaining indicator from anything other than a Red battery.

Before we could indicate non-RED battery status, we would a) need to know the protocol that the battery uses, and b) there would need to be TX and RX lines in the cable / plate that attaches the battery to the camera.

 

[Greg M]

Before we could indicate non-RED battery status, we would a) need to know the protocol that the battery uses, and b) there would need to be TX and RX lines in the cable / plate that attaches the battery to the camera.

If I can get someone at Anton Bauer to contact you, are you saying you would add this ability with their batteries?

 

[nzben]

A note for anyone following this thread & thinking of getting cables made up, I can highly recommend Panatech.

I saw one of his Red power to 12V (4 pin XLR) cables today, very good job as usual, using a quality high gauge cable. I have also used a few other Red cables from Wes on shoots - MDR2 control to Red, MDR power to D-Tap, HDSDI Downconvertor to Red Aux out.

I don't have any motives to post this, but Wes has been doing this for a long time and always does an excellent job. He is also very up with all the pin-outs on gear & power requirements, most owners of professional electronic film gear (prestons, cinetapes, cameras, etc) in NZ use him for maintence & cables.

OK Wes, you owe me for this plug (pun intended)

 

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

A note for anyone following this thread & thinking of getting cables made up, I can highly recommend Panatech.

I saw one of his Red power to 12V (4 pin XLR) cables today, very good job as usual, using a quality high gauge cable. I have also used a few other Red cables from Wes on shoots - MDR2 control to Red, MDR power to D-Tap, HDSDI Downconvertor to Red Aux out.

thanks for your advise .
okay will Panatech produce this cables for sell to redusers outside usa.
or maybe he will support red with this cable:umm:

 

[David Wyatt]

A note for anyone following this thread & thinking of getting cables made up, I can highly recommend Panatech.

I saw one of his Red power to 12V (4 pin XLR) cables today, very good job as usual, using a quality high gauge cable. I have also used a few other Red cables from Wes on shoots - MDR2 control to Red, MDR power to D-Tap, HDSDI Downconvertor to Red Aux out.

I don't have any motives to post this, but Wes has been doing this for a long time and always does an excellent job. He is also very up with all the pin-outs on gear & power requirements, most owners of professional electronic film gear (prestons, cinetapes, cameras, etc) in NZ use him for maintence & cables.

OK Wes, you owe me for this plug (pun intended)

I, for one, would be very interested in purchasing such a cable - especially if it had the ability to monitor the voltage and give you a warning before it ran out or else safely power the camera down rather than it just stopping dead (which would be terribly unhealthy). I'm surprised Red aren't making these cables themselves (perhaps they want everyone to buy their batteries? :detective2: )

While we're on the subject can anyone confirm for sure whether two IDX Endura 10's slotted together would be enough to power the Red (I think that comes to about 196Wh in total - I'm presuming you get the voltage from both batteries at the same time rather than sequentially?) Would there be no warning from the camera when they were about to die, though?

David Wyatt.

 

[Brent J. Craig]

If Red won't build the voltage monitoring circuit into the cameras (where it belongs) why doesn't someone make a small box that goes between the camera and an external battery that adds voltage monitoring data for anything plugged into it? It should also include reverse polarity protection and a resettable circuit breaker.

I'm sure rental houses would pay for the ability to use all of the block batteries they already own rather than buying new ones for the Red.

 

[paul dudeck]

Anton/Bauer has already released one "block style" battery called the CINE VCLX. This battery has an amazing 560wh of capacity at 14.4v and also has a simultaneous 28v (regulated) output for other accessories that require 28v. Anton/Bauer will also be releasing another battery which is 1/2 the size of this one and will be called the CINE CCLXXX. This one will be a 280wh battery at 14.4v.

Anton/Bauer will also be manufacturing a CA-RED cable that goes from 4p XLR to the 6p LEMO that is used on the camera. As of right now, there is no battery communication from these batteries to the camera, but that is being worked on.

These batteries, like all Anton/Bauer batteries that have the RealTime LCD, will show you remaining battery capacity with both an analog and digital features. The analog display will give you a simple bar graph, like the gas tank on your car. And, the digital display will give you actual hours and minutes of remaining run-time, which is calculated via a microprocessor in the battery and will change as your load changes. This is a feature that Anton/Bauer has had in their batteries since 1991!

The CINE VCLX and CCLXXX batteries also have a 15 minute LED warning on them. So, once the microprocessor calculates that there is 15 minutes or less of remaining run-time, a red LED on the battery will flash at your telling you that you should change your battery as soon as you get a chance to.

Run-times on the RED camera with the block batteries are as follows:

CINE VCLX Approximately 9hrs 20 minutes
CINE CCLXXX Approximately 4hrs 30 minutes

These calculations are based on an approximate 60 watt load. Adding additional items to the batter will decrease the run-times proportionally.

If you have any questions or problems, you can always email Paul Dudeck from Anton/Bauer at pdudeck@antonbauer.com.

Best wishes for the holiday.

 

[Matt Uhry]

Anton/Bauer has already released one "block style" battery called the CINE VCLX. This battery has an amazing 560wh of capacity at 14.4v and also has a simultaneous 28v (regulated) output for other accessories that require 28v. Anton/Bauer will also be releasing another battery which is 1/2 the size of this one and will be called the CINE CCLXXX. This one will be a 280wh battery at 14.4v.

Anton/Bauer will also be manufacturing a CA-RED cable that goes from 4p XLR to the 6p LEMO that is used on the camera. As of right now, there is no battery communication from these batteries to the camera, but that is being worked on.

These batteries, like all Anton/Bauer batteries that have the RealTime LCD, will show you remaining battery capacity with both an analog and digital features. The analog display will give you a simple bar graph, like the gas tank on your car. And, the digital display will give you actual hours and minutes of remaining run-time, which is calculated via a microprocessor in the battery and will change as your load changes. This is a feature that Anton/Bauer has had in their batteries since 1991!

The CINE VCLX and CCLXXX batteries also have a 15 minute LED warning on them. So, once the microprocessor calculates that there is 15 minutes or less of remaining run-time, a red LED on the battery will flash at your telling you that you should change your battery as soon as you get a chance to.

Run-times on the RED camera with the block batteries are as follows:

CINE VCLX Approximately 9hrs 20 minutes
CINE CCLXXX Approximately 4hrs 30 minutes

These calculations are based on an approximate 60 watt load. Adding additional items to the batter will decrease the run-times proportionally.

If you have any questions or problems, you can always email Paul Dudeck from Anton/Bauer at pdudeck@antonbauer.com.

Best wishes for the holiday.

Sounds good, What are the prices on these block batteries and the cable ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[paul dudeck]

Here are the list prices:

CINE VCLX $2385.00 each
CINE VCLX charger $1100.00 each
CA-GBC charger cable $275.00 each
Shipping Case $345.00 each

CA-RED power cable $250.00 each

CINE VCLXXX *Approximately $1590.00 each
CINE CC Charger *Approximately $895.00 each
CA-CCX charger cable $275.00 each
Shipping Case $345.00 each

*I have approximate pricing here as this new battery and charger will start shipping by March.

If you are looking at doing a RED Group purchase, then I can do better on this pricing. But, remember, this is only list pricing.

Please let me know if you are interested in doing a group purchase of block batteries.

P

 

[Wes Printz]

thanks for your advise .
okay will Panatech produce this cables for sell to redusers outside usa.
or maybe he will support red with this cable:umm:

Yes, I can make this cable for outside US as well. I've shipped one to the US on Monday. I'm gearing up to make more along with other cables for RED. I'm also working on an in line monitor which has been requested. Currently waitng on parts from my supplier. You can PM me for more info.

On the VCLX battery, there currently is one in New Zealand for testing. According to reports I've had back, it seems to be working very well. It's being used with a 435 on a feature, lasting damned near all day, with speeds of 24, 96, 150 FPS.

While we're on the subject can anyone confirm for sure whether two IDX Endura 10's slotted together would be enough to power the Red (I think that comes to about 196Wh in total - I'm presuming you get the voltage from both batteries at the same time rather than sequentially?) Would there be no warning from the camera when they were about to die, though?

David Wyatt.

YES, two E10's piggybacked will provide power for RED. The power drain would be from both batteries at the same time. If you do this, the recommended procedure is to pair the batteries and keep them as a set. I.E. 1 / 1, 2 / 2, etc. If one of the batteries is weaker than the other, it will pull the stronger battery down to it's level. Matching the batteries will help with even discharging of the packs.

Correct, there will NOT be a warning from the camera...

You WILL have to monitor the battery capacity, as IDX does NOT have the same monitoring internally as the RED, thus will not display remaining capacity on the RED, due to different data protocalls.



BIG O to Ben... Thanks

 

[Mike Prevette]

WOW thats the first I've seen of the AB Cine series. Those look awesome.