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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Post = $$$?

T

Tommy

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What are the major hurdles in post production when shooting with the Red aka what makes post so hard core? I recently talked with an editor in LA that has worked on quite a few Red projects and he seems to think that the camera is misunderstood by most cinematographers and editors to the point where you need quite a bit of money in order to fix all the problems that emerge in post. I've never heard such a disheartening view of post production with the Red but it's coming from someone who knows what he's talking about. If the cinematographer has experience with the Red, you shoot 4K 2:1 and transcode to ProRes SQ 720p for the offline edit, then hand over the FCP project file to a color grading facility and finish in ProRes HQ 1080p on HDCAM SR, where are the hurdles he's speaking of? Maybe I'm just naive but if the cinematographer nails the exposure and the editor is able to cut the film most of the post hurdles are solved if you work with a color grading facility that knows what they're doing in terms of color space, gamma, etc. since you always have the original R3Ds to work with, right? I'd appreciate it if an editor that's worked on some Red feature films could let me know if the landscape is as grim as this guy makes it sound.
 
He obviously doesn't understand the workflow.

its really easy now, especially when more grading programs can work in R3D everyday
 
Tommy said:
I've never heard such a disheartening view of post production with the Red but it's coming from someone who knows what he's talking about.
Click to expand...

"knows what he is talking about" is obviously relative. As a post production facility (or in his case as an editor) it is our obligation to keep up with new trends and techniques related to our craft. If you are standing still you will soon find yourself irrelevant. Red post is as hard as you make it...in our case it is quite simple.
 
The nature & budget of the project should drive the decision-making as to how to approach post. It should also inform as to the proper methodologies the DP & DIT will use with the camera when on set.

There is no single "best answer" or "right way" to go.

But FOR SURE a good place to start is by working with (or dare I say hiring) people who have recently been involved in (and have successfully completed) RED projects with similar requirements to yours in terms of deliverables, budget, logistics and target market.

I'm not sure if your acquantance (the editor) has enough recent, relevant experience to be helpful in the ways you need...

Just a suggestion dude.
 
Expose right then its easer...

Expose right then its easer...

If you expose right in the camera, a little dark with enough fill light to make sure you are out of the noise, use an 80 series filter and boost the lights you should have few major problems, it has a little more range than a video camera but not quite as much as color negative, so you may need to be a little carful about the fill lighting, but other than that it works, as can be seen in many projects shot so far.

As for the post, there are many workflows. Mine if "freeish" and high quality, others may be faster and a little lower quality using compressed files and conforming back to the R3D. Some of the complexity comes from the conforming, in my system the work flows forward so you do not need to go back to the R3D ever again, it is more film like.

Since I use video gamma TIF files, there are not LUT issues, you just match the TIF video gamma CCed frames in the film recorder, or resize them for the Blu-Ray-DVD version, they are finished to look right on a TV so you do not need to calabrate anything using LOG DPX and such. If you have any questions ask, you can try it today for "freeish", better things are in the works...

You can get R3D files from REDRELAY and REDCINE and try any workflow you want to see for yourself how nice the footage looks and how easy it can be to finish the project...

http://www.redrelay.net/

http://www.red.com/support/release_history/6

There is no reason to wonder about unknowns, you can see for yourself right now.
 
If you're editing FCP, you can use log and transfer, set to native, capture, edit, send to Color for finishing and be back home in time for tea. It's very simple, works well and looks good. I had a web movie of my 2nd daughter's first steps on the web in about half an hour after shooting it with that workflow.

Graeme
 
The scale of your film can help to define your post path. A music video is different than a multi-camera feature with a 30 day shoot and deliverables to executive producers. What is the scale of your production?
 
Graeme Nattress said:
It's very simple, works well and looks good. I had a web movie of my 2nd daughter's first steps on the web in about half an hour after shooting it with that workflow.

Graeme
Click to expand...

So you shot your daughters first steps on a RED? That is amazing!
 
Tommy said:
I've never heard such a disheartening view of post production with the Red but it's coming from someone who knows what he's talking about.
Click to expand...

Obviously it's coming from someone who only thinks/says he knows what he's talking about.

The only thing I can imagine in mitigation of your friend's erroneous statement, is that he works with absolutely terrible footage shot incompetently. I would imagine the problems correcting bad Red footage are not different than trying to fix badly shot film or HD video.

Red post is entirely straightforward and within the reach of virtually anyone competent with the most basic and popular editing tools.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Thanks for the positive reinforcement! The last thing I wanted to run by you guys was a specific problem he mentioned that was new to me. Has anyone had any trouble reconnecting the offline cut to the original R3D files at a post house or using Crimson? Also, have you ever lost metadata that forced you to reconstruct the whole timeline in order to be able to do the online? Thanks, Tommy
 
Post needs are driven by your deliverables--obviously. I don't understand why some folks think post is difficult. I think it's our elevated expectations. Do you know how many feature films and music videos that are shot in 35mm are finished in D-Beta. I know that sounds old school, but really..

Suddenly, every indie filmmaker thinks they need 4k delivery or a 2k film-out. Lots of other indie to bigger budget films get posted in 1080 and then to a film-out from the 1080. It happens way more then people realize.

If you down-res to 1080 ApplePro res, you could technically stay there forever. You could even CC to color from the 1080 if you wanted to. I bet 99% of people wouldn't see a benefit to re-conform to 2k image sequence.

(oh BTW - not directing this at yo tommy :)

I'm posting a feature in 720 prores (wish I would have gone straight to 1080) on a first gen Macbook Pro 1.8 with 2GB ram on a 2TB FW800 drive. Not a single issue. Runs like a charm.

Chris
 
Tommy said:
Thanks for the positive reinforcement! The last thing I wanted to run by you guys was a specific problem he mentioned that was new to me. Has anyone had any trouble reconnecting the offline cut to the original R3D files at a post house or using Crimson? Also, have you ever lost metadata that forced you to reconstruct the whole timeline in order to be able to do the online? Thanks, Tommy
Click to expand...

Have you tried the SEARCH feature on the tool bar? Look under workflows
there are TONS of threads addressing post issues.

good luck
 
Graeme Nattress said:
If you're editing FCP, you can use log and transfer, set to native, capture, edit, send to Color for finishing and be back home in time for tea. It's very simple, works well and looks good. I had a web movie of my 2nd daughter's first steps on the web in about half an hour after shooting it with that workflow.

Graeme
Click to expand...

And if you are using CS4. :tongue:

It's nice having native support.
 
A few more here:

Colette Walks in 4k

Now I just need to get her to sleep in 4k when it comes to bed time!

Graeme
 
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