RED please tell us when you knew the Scarlet was 4k and no longer 2/3 sensor

[Jeremy Wiles]

RED, congrats on creating the Scarlet. We are all excited. There's no doubt we all aren't excited about owning the EPIC as well. But many of us (not all) made the decision to buy an Epic based on it's comparison to the Scarlet and other cameras. Some of us bought the Epic as part of a rental business. Otherwise, if we knew the real options, then we might have bought the Scarlet instead.

How long ago was it that the Scarlet turned into a 4k camera and became full sensor?

 

[Steve Das]

...How long ago was it that the Scarlet turned into a 4k camera and became full sensor?

Had to be fairly recent since the skateboard 120 fps video was posted on 6-05-2011

They built it. They just could not sell it..for whatever reason.
Some combination of cost..parts..end price..market size..design difficulty nuked it out.
Heard from some Red workers this looked good when projected.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?59527-Scarlet-8x-internal-120FPS-test

 

[Justin Kirchhoff]

Why does it matter?

 

[Kalani Prince]

Scarlet 2/3rd was never "turned" into anything, it was dropped. I don't understand why people don't get that.. "Scarlet X" IS "Epic S" and "Scarlet Fixed" was a camera that didn't meet enough of Red's standards so it was dropped. I wish they'd just state that so we could all move on.. Epic S has probably been ready to go for sometime.. I'd bet money "Epic S" never ever ever comes out.. like ever.

 

[Shawn Bannon]

I do have to say RED always planned on making a Super 35 sized Scarlet Camera. Maybe one day they'll have the 2/3" camera, I hope this is true because I really want one for documentary work. Here are the original Scarlet S35 specs: Myst-X Spring/Summer 2009 $7000 5K, 30fps

 

[Andrew Walker]

Who cares? If RED decided to do it a month ago or 3 years ago, that's how they are doing business. If you bought an Epic M I hope you had a plan on making some money with it. I waited for an Epic X because I didn't need an Epic M right away. Got my Epic X and am happy shooting stock footage with it and other projects that it goes out on with me. I think the Scarlet specs are perfect as there is enough of a gap between Epic and Scarlet to justify the price difference.

I would say just get over it and either buy an Epic or wait for a Scarlet.

 

[Jeremy Wiles]

Why does it matter?

Because as I said, many of us (not all) made the decision to buy an Epic based on it's comparison to the Scarlet and other cameras.

I'm not trying to get into a debate. So for those who are happy they purchased the EPIC, that's great. Go on your merry way. I too am happy. I just wish I and probably a few other hundred other Epic owners knew of all my options at the time I made a purchasing decision.

 

[Andrew Walker]

Because as I said, many of us (not all) made the decision to buy an Epic based on it's comparison to the Scarlet and other cameras.

I'm not trying to get into a debate. So for those who are happy they purchased the EPIC, that's great. Go on your merry way. I too am happy. I just wish I and probably a few other hundred other Epic owners knew of all my options at the time I made a purchasing decision.

If your going to be concerned about changes in technology that happen all the time, I would suggest renting.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Who cares? If RED decided to do it a month ago or 3 years ago, that's how they are doing business. If you bought an Epic M I hope you had a plan on making some money with it. I waited for an Epic X because I didn't need an Epic M right away. Got my Epic X and am happy shooting stock footage with it and other projects that it goes out on with me. I think the Scarlet specs are perfect as there is enough of a gap between Epic and Scarlet to justify the price difference.

I would say just get over it and either buy an Epic or wait for a Scarlet.

THIS.

 

[Imran Farouk]

Why is everyone acting as if RED has a duty to tell everybody when the changes were made?

Does Canon tell you or did tell you when the next camera was coming and what exactly it was? Hell no one I think thought that they would go 1080p look at all the disappointed people and ok there are some happy.

Sony same thing

Apple...did they tell you before they killed XSERVE? no.

RED is transparent but like they said, they had to go into quiet mode because of the missing of dates and so forth getting some people annoyed...they are transparent and listen to some extent more than other companies,
They changed from 2/3 because an over whelming number mustve asked for full frame but they thought they would one up that and go 5K, they found a way to do it. They didn't know it was possible. Things changed in the last 3 days.

Don't whine when a company doesn't tell you things...they don't have an obligation to, they just wanted to do so to help their R&D and it has an will continue to do so. They just won't give you a date anymore like "september 2012" and miss it then have everyone cry out "VAPORWARE!"
the majority of us that understand RED love the fact that they adjusted for the future.

Scarlet is great. Limitations are FPS and of course these are and have the chance thankfully of being changed with Dragon for a major price though as stated.
If your worried your rental business will die or will not do so well cause of Scarlet...then you have to ask the question, do you really know RED? They are always adjusting and changing.
Everything is subject to change, how that affects your business is clearly up to you to decide.

Plan for change. Don't think everything is permanent.
If they say 2/3s then also think that if enough people want a fullframe they will adjust accordingly if possible.
The EPIC is a technical leap, so the Scarlet can be one also too.
Nothing is impossible.

"Everything changes." Long story shot. deal with it. sorry to be so harsh but I just can't understand why people are so upset. If I ran a rental business I'd be overjoyed with Scarlet, that means I could grab another set of Scarlets and make money from those to.
Most here have calculated something between 20-30 jobs to pay it off. If your EPIC is sitting in the cupboard, then your Scarlet can always pay it off too or you can sell it, there are plenty of people that would like a second hand one.

RED just simply made a decision to change the game and push 4K revolution even faster and force Canon and Sony even Panasonic to bring out cheaper cameras that shoot 4K. RED just helped a lot of people out if you think about it. That DSLR 4K from Canon will need to be less than Scarlet in cost or perform better and compete against the EPIC. Because if it aint against the EPIC its against the Scarlet and the Scarlet at $14K is a pretty damn tough horse to beat. Shes a beauty and has a modular form factor as well as an upgrade program.

Things are going to change drastically in the next few years. Count on it. Dragon is going to make your EPIC INSANE, more than it already is. The charge will be substantially different no doubt between the EPIC and Scarlet.

So lets all enjoy the fact that there is no 2 awesome cameras from RED this year AND that it has caused the competition to quickly readjust and go 4K for less than 20K. Because anything more and they'll be looking at going head to head with EPIC. That's not good news for them when Dragon hits.

The decision was theirs to make. They made it to benefit the customers.

 

[nima]

The problem is that a lower res camera, at this production stage, would have costed much more than a simple variation of the Epic.
Both camera weight 5 pounds, so where all the Scarlet parts come from? From Epic.
I know some of the people of this forum and several Red owners around the globe. I an tell you that a good 40% of people made the decision to purchase an Epic camera because they needed a 4k resolution at 24fps.
All these people are now a little pissed off.
I truly think that a smaller 2k camera would have had a huge market, the same market that brought Canon C300 in the game.

 

[Imran Farouk]

That's all fine and dandy but then again the RED slogan is 'everything in life changes'

If they told us that the camera was no longer 3K then I'm sure a lot of companies would have adjusted to take on such a threat, RED just threw all 4K solutions out the window in some cases.

Doesn't the RED One shoot 4K though with the MX chip at 24fps and cheaper than an EPIC?

 

[Jeremy Wiles]

If your going to be concerned about changes in technology that happen all the time, I would suggest renting.

Very good point. But, what should I rent? An EPIC or Scarlet? Don't you see how this greatly affects the rental prices? Who would rent an EPIC for $1200 to $1500 per day when the can own a Scarlet after just 2 weeks of rental?

The people at RED are trying to make a living and also people like me. A bit more heads up would help. That's all.

 

[Zach Swena]

From one post I read from the red team Scarlet was QHD as recent as last week!!!! (I can't find the exact post as the read team button isn't working but remember reading that one some thread)

I think they probably have had the s35 decision made for a while though. I think one of the main reasons they didn't do 2/3" was that they have been having yield issues with their ASIC's. If the ASIC can't handle the data rates it gets scrapped, or in this case put in Scarlet X. Keep in mind 3k 120fps like they were talking about requires significantly more processing power then Scarlet X has. This would imply that 2/3" scarlet would be more expensive then Scarlet X less the difference in sensor cost. I still hope they do a smaller sensor some time though for those of us that like deeper DOF.

 

[Justin Marx]

Very good point. But, what should I rent? An EPIC or Scarlet? Don't you see how this greatly affects the rental prices? Who would rent an EPIC for $1200 to $1500 per day when the can own a Scarlet after just 2 weeks of rental?

The people at RED are trying to make a living and also people like me. A bit more heads up would help. That's all.

Huh? They are like apples and oranges, both round but still a different fruit.. 300fps, 5k ff, and just a cool name ;-)

 

[Andrew Walker]

Very good point. But, what should I rent? An EPIC or Scarlet? Don't you see how this greatly affects the rental prices? Who would rent an EPIC for $1200 to $1500 per day when the can own a Scarlet after just 2 weeks of rental?

The people at RED are trying to make a living and also people like me. A bit more heads up would help. That's all.

People that want the features that Epic brings to the table, such as higher frame rates, more resolution, better REDcode, HDRx and some other stuff will rent it. People not wanting that will get Scarlet...or rent. Doesn't seem very difficult to me. I could care less if I ever rent out my Epic. I bought the camera to shoot with, not to let others shoot with it. If someone wants to rent it and I'm not using it, sure. But I use my Epic to shoot my timelapse with, to shoot guns and explosions, to shoot just regular old stock footage. Epic fits my needs perfectly. Scarlet is a cool camera but doesn't have what I need.

 

[Jeremy Wiles]

Huh? They are like apples and oranges, both round but still a different fruit.. 300fps, 5k ff, and just a cool name ;-)

Nah, I'd say they are both apples. Just two different colors, one is better than the other, and a huge price difference.

 

[Dan Kanes]

Strange but true story - Night of November 2nd - went to bed tossing and turning a bit.

Had a dream that My wife and I were living in an industrial part of LA (we are) - then in the distance I saw Jim Jannard.

He was carrying a Surfboard under one arm, and in his other hand he had a plastic grocery bag. He said "Hey guys - I brought these for you"

In the Bag Were a Large Asian Pear, and some Oranges.

I thought about posting it in Off Topic, but decided everyone would make fun of me. Then I saw this post just now, and was like - what the heck, people are getting all mad at each other, so I might as well embarass myself.

Anyway - I think Epic is like a Nice big fat Pear, and Scarlet-X is like a small but very tasty orange.

 

[Iannis Holwech]

Nah, I'd say they are both apples. Just two different colors, one is better than the other, and a huge price difference.

If your so concerned, why didn't you catch this thread from January this year?
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?53580-EPIC-S-(old-Scarlet-S35)-update...

You must surely have know there would be a camera with the specs that now is named Scarlet-X, it was not a big surprise. The only surprise was really that the Scarlet fixed was dropped. Even the price match earlier indications.
It was on the original roadmap from autumn of 2008 and was also quite recently said that it was planned to be released just after Scarlet fixed started to ship.
Now when Scarlet fixed had to be dropped because of technical issues, this camera just moved up the line some months.

No one following RED should be much surprised by this.