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RED One's Changing Hands (why?)

Rob Anderson

Rob Anderson

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Set aside the obvious for a moment (weight, sensor capability)... I'm seeing a lot of RED One's changing hands now. It's been a bit of a wildfire actually. Particularly with the Epic-X stage guys selling off their original systems. That's been good news for me [new shooter with RED] as it allowed me to take over a used kit from another RU member at a good package value. That investment quickly turned into an up-sell for RED as I've already plunked down for an Epic too.

But I'm curious, for the owners selling off their systems -- have you considered that RED may offer a Dragon sensor for the One also? If so, the usability and value as a package will jump forward yet again. I believe it's even been hinted from RED official that owners "will be glad they held onto their One." Considering how well RED has treated owners in the past (particularly with the Epic-X upgrade stages), I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one more major evolution still in store.

My plan with the One right now is to continue using it as a test bed for training, workflow and gear experiments, studio series, and backup use for the Epic. But I can't shake the feeling I not only bought a used One at a good price, I also invested in a healthy future.

Anyone else thinking along these lines?
 
Well, maybe you will be glad that the RED ONE owners held onto their cameras...But I distinctly remember reading a post from Jannard stating that the RED ONE will not receive the RED DRAGON sensor upgrade due to speed transfer issues. But, it was also stated that the Scarlet-X would be upgradeable but for a higher price due to the replacement of other components because the scarlet wont be able to handle the data transfer rates required by the new sensor size and maybe new or improved REDCODE RAW. So...if the Scarlet-X can receive this upgrade, I guess it wouldn't be a huge surprise if the RED ONE could get this upgrade also. Even thought Jannard said it wouldn't...we all know things are ALWAYS changing :)
 
Good to know. I wasn't aware Jannard had commented specifically about the Dragon not going into the One. Very interesting! Thanks for the heads up.
 
patrickortman said:
Jannard also posted about how people will be happy they kept their R1s, at one point, instead of selling them as they move to Epic.
Click to expand...
That was the quote I had in reference. Can't say for sure what that refers to, but a good bet may be one more package upgrade.
 
People always want new stuff. You think there's sales going on with the Red One; I think the sales on the Arri Alexa are going to be badly affected by the Sony F65. I think the Arri is kind of caught in the middle, with the F65 on the high end and the Epic at the lower end of the spectrum, and the Alexa is the odd man out, being only 2K.
 
My RED ONE #476 is very special to me, it is MX´ed it has run for well over 2000 hours last time I checked, it is in perfect condition! And although I have two Epics and another one coming, I see my RED ONE being used for a long long time still. (It has 7 more years at least!)

What actually really suprises me is not that people who only need one camera is selling their Red One (to free up cash to get their Epic), but how low priced they are, they are a REAL BARGAIN! There are a lot of cameras out there priced higher with a lot less performance in them!

I can mention a system that starts with A... and also a bunch of cameras below that, the Red One is only beaten by the Epic in my book!

But it´s good times for camera purchasing, you can now pick up the second best digital camera in the world for a around 14.000$, Now that´s a BARGAIN!
Good for the filmmakers!

EDIT: When my RED ONE #476 is done and finished, I will put it on display next to my first film camera - Arri 16Bl, and keep it forever! So mine is not for sale, ever!
 
Nice post Eirik. Agreed. The R1 is a workhorse. Bullet-proof. Way ahead of it's time. Badass.
 
Alexa has at least another 3-4 years of life, even if we're 4k in the home by then (which we may be, but not most). I wish they were cheaper! S65 will take the high end but as likely to cannabalise from Epic as Alexa - big budgets don't buy, they hire. Starting to see EPICs turn up on Craigslist too. That interests me greatly. When they start hitting the low 20s (currently mid 30s) I'll be VERY interested.
As for R1s, waiting for an MX model to hit 6-8k later this year and I'll pick that up. Won't be long now.
 
Eirik Tyrihjel said:
...the Red One is only beaten by the Epic in my book!
But it´s good times for camera purchasing, you can now pick up the second best digital camera in the world for a around 14.000$, Now that´s a BARGAIN!
Good for the filmmakers!
Click to expand...

Interesting, so you also rate the Red One above the Scarlet? I've got to say I think that even at 4K 24fps, the other benefits of the scarlet's form factor and OS mean that the R1 has to now take third place.
 
Mark Tierney said:
Alexa has at least another 3-4 years of life, even if we're 4k in the home by then (which we may be, but not most). I wish they were cheaper! S65 will take the high end but as likely to cannabalise from Epic as Alexa - big budgets don't buy, they hire. Starting to see EPICs turn up on Craigslist too. That interests me greatly. When they start hitting the low 20s (currently mid 30s) I'll be VERY interested.
As for R1s, waiting for an MX model to hit 6-8k later this year and I'll pick that up. Won't be long now.
Click to expand...

Epic-X's were in the mid-20's for all of 2011. It was only at the start of the year they jumped up to the mid-30's (more in line with their actual cost). If anything, Epic's are being sold now to flip a short profit for the difference -- I can't see any other common reason. I think it'll be a good while before you see Epic's going for low 20's. A few spotted desperation sales not really being a marker.
 
The weight issue is kind of interesting. No doubt R1 is a beast by camcorder/DSLR standards but not always an issue. Old DPs/videographers probably laugh when they see people say their rigs are too heavy. Some of these guys wielded rigs 40-60 lbs back in the day. Weight is one factor. Ergonomics another. Balance is key. Although R1 has its challenges in this department, because of the way I rig my camera I have been able to get it to manageable weights, but for long extended handheld shooting it can certainly benefit from some support (easy rig, things like that). But many times the camera is on a tripod, dolly, jib, etc. Weight is less of an issue. And if that is the type of shooting you do on a regular basis, these camera packages going for $10-15K are a huge bargain. But sure, for those who like to run around, 1 man band style, often with no tripod, then yes an Epic or Scarlet fits the task better.

Boot up time is a huge plus for the new Reds. For a doc shooter, or anyone for that matter being able to get the camera up and running quickly is great.

Someone had done a comparison chart of the three cameras which was a pretty good reference. I'll see if I can track that thread down.
 
If I could have seen my way to Stage 2, I would have kept my R1, however, that was not an option for me. Given the smaller form factor and the boot up times, plus the increased capabilities, it is just a no-brainer now to get the EPIC during the Stage 3 program.

No doubt, I will have some regret someday but probably not too much. For what I want to do, the R1 was beautiful but she just had too big an ass! :)
 
Mark Tierney said:
Alexa has at least another 3-4 years of life, even if we're 4k in the home by then (which we may be, but not most).
Click to expand...
Let's see what happens at NAB. Arri has to answer the technical challenges from Sony and Red. I would be very impressed if they offered an upgrade path for the Alexa (on which I'm doubtful).

It's tough for DPs these days. I can remember a time when they wouldn't have to upgrade cameras more than once every 10-15 years, if then. Now, there's a software upgrade every 2 months, and new hardware every 2 years (or less). Very tough when cameras turn into computers.
 
Marc Wielage said:
Let's see what happens at NAB. Arri has to answer the technical challenges from Sony and Red. I would be very impressed if they offered an upgrade path for the Alexa (on which I'm doubtful).

It's tough for DPs these days. I can remember a time when they wouldn't have to upgrade cameras more than once every 10-15 years, if then. Now, there's a software upgrade every 2 months, and new hardware every 2 years (or less). Very tough when cameras turn into computers.
Click to expand...

I predict a point, not very distant from now, where the time, cost, performance, and perceptible use benefit will outstrip the need for new hardware. Consider gaming consoles. The XBOX 360 debuted 7 years ago. The upgrades have been accessories, storage, and a slimmer, reworked version, but beyond that, it's the same spec as the original. Camera systems are going to hit that same point. We're not there yet -- lots of room to advance, but we will be there in a few years time.
 
Proud Pappa, nice.

I too was amazed to see how low the R1 prices are. Not just $14,000 but a full kit for that much. As I found out, the brain is just the beginning. It's great for the starving artists and "no budgetsies." Everyone wins... We'll we know that isn't quite truth but there is more potential great material on the way. #476, nice. The first 1000 are really in a group of their own IMO. #3033 here.

How many R1's are out there in the world now? 6,000+?

Eirik Tyrihjel said:
My RED ONE #476 is very special to me, it is MX´ed it has run for well over 2000 hours last time I checked, it is in perfect condition! And although I have two Epics and another one coming, I see my RED ONE being used for a long long time still. (It has 7 more years at least!)

What actually really suprises me is not that people who only need one camera is selling their Red One (to free up cash to get their Epic), but how low priced they are, they are a REAL BARGAIN! There are a lot of cameras out there priced higher with a lot less performance in them!

I can mention a system that starts with A... and also a bunch of cameras below that, the Red One is only beaten by the Epic in my book!

But it´s good times for camera purchasing, you can now pick up the second best digital camera in the world for a around 14.000$, Now that´s a BARGAIN!
Good for the filmmakers!

EDIT: When my RED ONE #476 is done and finished, I will put it on display next to my first film camera - Arri 16Bl, and keep it forever! So mine is not for sale, ever!
Click to expand...
 
Marc Wielage said:
It's tough for DPs these days. I can remember a time when they wouldn't have to upgrade cameras more than once every 10-15 years, if then. Now, there's a software upgrade every 2 months, and new hardware every 2 years (or less). Very tough when cameras turn into computers.
Click to expand...

DP's never used to own cameras as a rule, Cameraman working in Television news did, but thats hardly what a DP was 10-15 years ago. Video cameras always had a fairly short life, the first tube betacams needed new tubes every 1000 hours fot 5k! By an Epic today, not sure there will be a 'huge need' to upgrade in 2 years time, it works well & produces very nice pictures, thats not going to change.
 
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