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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red One Vs Epic Vs everything else

Seems like a lot of you are just not aching for that "looking through a window" effect where the image is so resolved and detailed it's like if you were there. Nothing wrong with that.

Removing the technical qualifications for a while (because they are very real, as Björn mentions) I think there are a couple of camps out there. High resolution, HDR and HFR on one side where one might say it's a game of removing any abstraction—as if you're there looking with your own eyes, while the other side of the spectrum is more Lo-Fi and the desired look is to create just the right abstraction: a feel of looking at painterly images or art.

The road to happiness is probably realising the only opinion that counts is one's own. After that it's a question if those types of images hold up in post—which may or may not be the case.

Some will say that you can always take a technically superior image and "degrade" it, but you can't go the other way. Others will realise that there is no need to over spend or over engineer when you're already holding that in your hand, what you are looking for.
 
Rehan Malik said:
BTW do you see a difference between the Red One MX and the Red Epic MX - because I can, on the examples I have seen online. Red One seems more cinem****.
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I noticed this with the (day job) RED ONE vs my personal BT Scarlet MX.
But I assumed this was normal.
I've had this argument with coworkers wanting to put the RED ONE to pasture.
Replaced it with two Panasonic EVA-1s.
It was a corp decision not a favourable one from my perspective.
Pure laziness on my teams part :P
 
AndreeMarkefors said:
...while the other side of the spectrum is more Lo-Fi and the desired look is to create just the right abstraction: a feel of looking at painterly images or art.
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This. Red One MX footage is not a neutral or technically pristine. It's a look that can't really be duplicated. I think that's why there's a few of us who are still using them.
 
Thanks Eric, glad to see I'm not the only one. As mentioned I pulled out some shots from a small indie film we made 10 years ago on the first Red and it really blew me away. It had a quality I haven't seen since. Would love to see if Red could use the miracles of miniaturisation and create a small prosumer camera which the same internals as the first Red. I'd buy that!
 
I cannot add much more to this conversation other than I still use and rent out my Red One MX and it will never be replaced until it dies. The biggest complaint I hear about the Red One is of course the weight. Mine fully kitted out is around 35 lbs, I believe.

Would it be possible to replace the heavy shell with a 3D printed composite version or carbon fiber? If you don't need internal audio, could the XLR internals be deleted? Could some of the electronics be replaced with smaller more modern versions without worrying about firmware issues? I know it's one of those "but why" projects, but I'm more of a "why not" type of person. I'm also not an engineer so maybe it's all a waste of time.
 
Eric Santiago said:
We have one collecting dust here, would love someone to DYI that ;)
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I would definitely be willing to give it a try while documenting it, but I most definitely cannot guarantee I can return your Red One in any working condition... or in anything considered a "condition" for that matter. LOL!
 
Great idea Chad! Almost tempted to dust down my engineering degree. But definitely got two left hands. Lets hope an intrepid engineer answers our call!!!
 
You guys may recall that Red did make some carbon fiber versions for David Fincher on The Social Network. It’s possible but there may have been issues we don’t know about. Remember, R1 generates a lot of heat. The key to getting the camera light short of a new lighter body is to get as many accessories off the camera and use small stills lenses. My original setup had that silly drive battery cage and a Cooke 18-90 lens. That was like carrying a tank on my shoulder. SSD changed the game. Battery belt pack removed a lot of weight too (as long as you can balance it enough for shoulder work). The original EVF which was decent adds too much weight. Go with lighter one or LCD screen. My lightest setup was around 13lbs i think, somewhere in that ballpark. I’ll try to recreate that setup and take some photos. I have Pentax Takumars that are lovely and really light with decent focus mechanisms. Red one eats batteries for lunch. if you could use smaller v-mounts it would be a bit easier on the weight. R1 is the most versatile of all the Red cams in terms of audio. 4 channels. useable mic pres in a pinch. 4.5k RC42 is pretty nice. As someone mentioned it’s not a pristine image like you would see out of a lot of new cameras which for some might be a strength not a weakness. on the right project still very capable.
 
IMG_0233-L.jpg


15lbs

Shot with it tonight with kids carving pumpkins. It's still great, especially with these Takumars which are probably my favorite combo with this camera.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
IMG_0233-L.jpg


15lbs

Shot with it tonight with kids carving pumpkins. It's still great, especially with these Takumars which are probably my favorite combo with this camera.
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Nice config Steve.
I like the strap.

Had a shoot today with mine and a few more during the week.
RED ONE is still a viable camera.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Steve, that's got to be one of the most mint Red One's out there and thanks for your all reasoned and well informed posts. I configured my Red One MX in a similar fashion thanks to one of your posts in the past - single top handle, ssd module, nikon mount, Rokinon cine primes and battery belt clip with small v mount batts.

On the topic...there's a thread on Blu-ray dot com regarding the anticipated release of Girl with the Dragon Tattoo 4K UHD bluray (delayed possibly because Fincher is too busy). Most comment on how they love the film of course but also how great it looks and what 4k and HDR grading will do for it. I recently re-watched the HD bluray on my 65" LG OLED upscaled via an Oppo 4k player and it looked very impressive. They're very savvy on that forum when it comes to how the mastering was achieved, noise reduction, overall PQ ect.

The driving ambition at the beginning for Jim and RED was to create a digital alternative to 35mm film and that was the Red One and watching that film again reminded me of how good it still looks. And as others have already mentioned, still can when properly handled.
 
That is a great set up Steve. I have most of the stuff, including an Atomos. Will try it out shortly!
 
Chad Beaty said:
Would it be possible to replace the heavy shell with a 3D printed composite version or carbon fiber? If you don't need internal audio, could the XLR internals be deleted? Could some of the electronics be replaced with smaller more modern versions without worrying about firmware issues? I know it's one of those "but why" projects, but I'm more of a "why not" type of person. I'm also not an engineer so maybe it's all a waste of time.
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Where there's a will... check out this thread on DVXuser: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?366979-Shrinking-F35

One of the members has bravely opened up his F35 and re-engineered it into a much smaller camera. And there are a lot more Red One cameras out there than F35s.
 
We just need that one brave engineering soul to take up the mantle of this reengineering project. Would love to see the reengineered R1.
 
The idea of re-housing the Red One came up many times over the years and I had a conversation with Jarred about it many years ago. Here is a thread from 2010. Keep in Mind, Red One was still a camera being used widely at that point, so it's possible that after a lot of time has passed there would be more openness about modifying the Red One body. I can't recall the specifics of the conversation with Jarred but there may have been some technical reasons why a rehouse was difficult. I know they used a couple on Social network but it may have only been for a small percentage of the shoot and of course they had access to RED support that no one who does the mod now will have access to. Is it worth the gamble? Maybe, if you have snagged a couple of R1's in good shape and can sacrifice them if the mod doesn't go well. The cameras are EOL'd so at this point, they are good as dead if something goes wrong anyway. Better bet might be to keep an eye on Epic X cameras that hit the market over the next 6 months as I suspect these are going to drop way down in price point.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?40224-Red-One-Carbon-Fibre-Upgrade
 
Red one Mx in a Komodo body would be exceptional, let's start a request..
If the demand is high enough, maybe Red will consider this project.

How much would you guys pay for this body upgrade?

Edit : Here is a naked Red one Mx : https://www.instagram.com/p/CARYQQop9lf/
Feels like an impossible project..
 
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Mendes Nabil said:
Red one Mx in a Komodo body would be exceptional, let's start a request..
If the demand is high enough, maybe Red will consider this project.

How much would you guys pay for this body upgrade?

Edit : Here is a naked Red one Mx : https://www.instagram.com/p/CARYQQop9lf/
Feels like an impossible project..
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Based on the board sizes, they certainly won't fit in a Komodo, which means you'd have to design new boards. And in the end, would probably be more expensive than Komodo. :-)

I think best bet is to embrace the R1 as is. Yes, it's a beast. But, on a tripod, a dolly, a jib it screams cinema camera. And sometimes the weight is actually helpful. You also have 4 audio inputs with decent (not great) preamps that is a big advantage over later bodies. Komodo is a great camera too. I really enjoyed using it. Certainly a different image than R1. Each cam has its strengths and weaknesses.But from a pure image quality perspective (not feel or other subjective qualities) the Komodo has a better image. That doesn't necessarily make it the best camera for a particular project. That's why the R1 still has life. If people like the image it produces, then it might be the better camera for a certain project.

I just know that RED has no interest in bringing back the MX sensor in a new body. The closest you will get to the R1 in a small body is the Epic MX.
 
Thank you Steve. I have just bought an Epic MX, to see if I could go past the weight/size issue - but I can't seem to duplicate the Red One look. Perhaps it's just the settings. Really hope I can work out how to, as that would really be ideal. But comparing the Epic with the R1 on YouTube (and features), there's definitely a difference - as far as I can make out. Perhaps the R1 was just a one-off.
 
Rehan, would you mind posting a comparison? I've always felt that there was a difference with the R1MX coming out on top, but have never seen them directly compared.
 
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