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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED One "Video Village"

MikeCurtis said:
khmuse - in the LATEST spec, but not all HDMI enabled devices adhere to that spec. So keep that in mind...

-mike
Click to expand...

"...current iteration..." = "...LATEST spec..."

Sorry for not making it clearer, but as I design products that include HDMI interfaces I often forget that not everyone follows the standard developments as closes as I need to.
 
Do we know what we will see on the 1080p output when shooting 4k? I'm assuming (just my guess) that when recording 1080p in camera it will be 4k scaled to 50% and then slightly cropped to pixel for pixel 1920x1080. If this is also what we get from the 1080p dual link output it will be from a 3840x2160 window on the 4k frame. Will this be an issue for monitoring? Certainly shouldn't be used to check for booms in shot.

Somebody from RED correct me if my assumptions are wrong.
 
Nick, not sure on what the HDMI specs say but bear in mind Red uses the old v1.0 HDMI, not anything later....and yes we know...specs blah blah blah!

That's interesting about no direct 4K monitoring.....well there's not a lot of cheap 4K monitoring solutions out there is there, but I thought that when Red announced(ish) their 4K monitor, they would have some redcode decoder in it for camera/post monitoring and maybe provision for 4 x dual DVI/HDMI/HD-SDI solutions....
 
I plan to use our Panasonic BT-LH1700W HD lcd via the RED HD-SDI out for now. That sounds right? This 17" monitor has been a great production monitor, heavy duty housing and mountable to a C-stand...pack it up and use it in post as well for color etc. I figure if the picture is primo on the monitor in 1080p then I trust the 4k ;)...look forward to what REd has in store of course!

Cheers
 
Haskell said:
I plan to use our Panasonic BT-LH1700W HD lcd via the RED HD-SDI out for now. That sounds right? This 17" monitor has been a great production monitor, heavy duty housing and mountable to a C-stand...pack it up and use it in post as well for color etc. I figure if the picture is primo on the monitor in 1080p then I trust the 4k ;)...look forward to what REd has in store of course!
Click to expand...
I'm planning to use that same monitor in the field as well...it will do 720 or 1080 and is a great looking monitor, although I find they tend run a little green. That has been the case on everyone I have used, some more than others. The one I own is pretty good but still slightly green.
 
Gibby,

Isn't it amazing that moving pictures ever got made before the advent of the video tap? chorttle chorttle snarf snorf hack ack.....
excuse me

Chuck
 
chuck colburn said:
Gibby,

Isn't it amazing that moving pictures ever got made before the advent of the video tap? chorttle chorttle snarf snorf hack ack.....
excuse me

Chuck
Click to expand...

Yup...imagine that! Makes me wonder why some have a hard time getting their arms around a nearly-WYSIWYG environment... :biggrin:
 
We'll I made sure to pay close attention and see what Apple and other booths were using as display monitors. The Panasonic BT-LH2600W! No it doesn't support 4:4:4 but the options are great.
 
Camera van plus

Camera van plus

I have been working on this issue for several months now. I was even pestering Ted about working out something with RED for my van to host traveling road shows at one point. Of course he couldn't tell me about the Apple/Final Cut support pre-NAB and that a big van wasn't required. While the RedCode support in QuickTime has opened up some very easy workflow options I still plan to put a van on the road and here are some reasons why:

To address the initial point of this thread the van itself can be a mobile video village. I plan to finish the interior in grey tones with a full blackout of exterior light in an attempt to provide a proper grading environment. I will use an eCinema monitor until RED can ship a 4k option. I will have plenty of power options and plenty of hard drive space for running copies.

I am going to use two carts that can roll on set or operate in the van - one for the camera and one for computer. I am also planning a hood system for remote use of the camera/monitor cart when necessary. The other big advantage of the cart system is that I can remove the expensive gear from the van easily.

I have a number of ideas including a 8' roll down screen on the side of the van that would host a front projection image under a tent/awning system that would attach to cleats on the van roof rail. I could go on.

Anyone interested in working with me on developing what I am currently referring to as the rolling digital one-light lab feel free to PM me.
 
Nick Shaw said:
Stuart said 720p was chosen for it's ability to do 60p. I wonder if in future as 1080p60 monitors become more commonly available it will be possible to have upgrades to support that. Does the current HDMI spec support 1080p60?
Click to expand...

1080p60 is supported with HDMI 1.1 and newer. With v1.0, it was there in the "alternative timings and specifications" section. Just about all new true 1080p displays support 1080p60, so I don't know if that's really a reason. I'm just guessing, but I think the reason has to do with the LCD and EVF interfaces. These are HDMI based according to what I've gathered and are also 720p. There's a good bet that the HDMI output, as well as the LCD and EVF connectors all operate off of the same HDMI chipset and signal pathway. So, it's not really possible to have the EVF and/or LCD attached running 720p and the camera also dumping 1080p out via the HDMI connector. That's my theory...

The dual-link SDI to HDMI converter is just fine... I was just thinking along the lines of eliminating such a converter box, for the sake of simplicity and mobility. But I really don't see much point to a 1080p HDMI output except for a client monitor. With the upgradable nature of RED, I would assume and expect that monitoring options and modes will grow in time just as we will eventually have higher-res options for the EVF and the LCD.
 
How long a delay would there be from the camera to a field monitor?

Would it be small enough to allow for realtime remote focus pulling with your AC sat with the supergrip or other remote infront of an Apple 30" running at 1080p off of a BlackMagic HD-SDI to DVI convertor? Would using expensive fibre optics cabling make it better? Does the distance of the cabling make a significant difference?
 
The delay through HD SDI should be under 2 frames, possibly much less.
For a decent monitor for the video village the Cinetal range are very nice. Around $30k with dual HD SDI inputs. Keep in mind these beasities let you dial in a Look so the client can see how the footage will look when graded. If you've got the post workflow to match you can take the Look and apply it to the footage. In other words what the client sees on the shoot can be what the client signs off on the day and knows they get.
This is where digital acquisition has it all over film.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
I will use an eCinema monitor until RED can ship a 4k option.
Click to expand...

This is a bit off topic, but I have to ask: Even if one were available, how would you plan to use a 4K monitor in this scenario? You will likely never get a "live" 4K feed out of the camera (Red has pretty much said this), and Final Cut cannot deliver 4K playback, at least not in this iteration. The only time you will actually have a 4K image to view would be on a final deliverable, after all work is basically done and you can generate 4K images. So how would you be using it in a production environment, other than to look at individual frames?

Just curious..
 
RobRoySyd said:
Keep in mind these beasities let you dial in a Look so the client can see how the footage will look when graded.
Click to expand...

Theoretically, we should be able to do this with any monitor and RED. When shooting REDCODE RAW, the camera should allow for a user-designated LUT and gamma settings for output to HDMI, SDI and even the EVF / LCD.
 
PaulClements said:
How long a delay would there be from the camera to a field monitor?

Would it be small enough to allow for realtime remote focus pulling with your AC sat with the supergrip or other remote infront of an Apple 30" running at 1080p off of a BlackMagic HD-SDI to DVI convertor? Would using expensive fibre optics cabling make it better? Does the distance of the cabling make a significant difference?
Click to expand...

David Mullen answered this for me elsewhere when I quoted Rodney Charters reluctance to use a Digital solution. Basically the focus puller has to predict where the actor is going next (the next mark) and not react to the monitor or else the "searching-for-focus" will distract the audience.

Canon showed some new auto focus technology at NAB where they "steal" some of the image from the lens and hit a focusing sensor, but I think tape measures and focus pullers will be near the lens for a few more years.

Hope this answered your question,

Rosco
 
PaulClements said:
Would using expensive fibre optics cabling make it better? Does the distance of the cabling make a significant difference?
Click to expand...

In remote HDTV sports production, for example golf and marathon coverage, with the traditional use of triax, repeaters had to be installed periodically down the cabling. Now fiber optic cables as long as 10,000 feet are used, with great results, even daisy-chaining multiple cameras and monitors through the fiber. On larger budget, essentially stationary sets, fiber makes good sense.
 
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