Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red One Used for First 4K Operation

S

Steven Palter MD

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Thanks to the never ending support of Red's Ted Shilowitz we successfully coupled the Red One to a surgical laparoscope and used it to perform surgery in 4K. Richard Weinberg, USC School of Cinematic Arts helped me create the coupler and troubleshoot. Of course we could only view it live in HD but we then teamed up with Mark Pederson at Offhollywood NY to make a 4K DCP which we showed to 3500 at the ASRM medical conference,. Projection was via LMT-100 media blocks and Sony SRX-R220 4K projectors thaks to the Sony Digital cinema and Medical groups. Now if we could just get real time color correct 4k output...

Full details of project with photos from the OR at first 4K surgery
 
That is Amazing, congratulations!
 
Mike-- thanks for the kudos but I was never at that meeting. I'm the surgeon and a 4K medical evangelist -- Steven Palter, MD
 
I shot a 4K spinal surgery with a neurosurgeon last summer...guess I should have marketed it better!

I know there were people doing it before I did, also - so I wonder about the "first" designation - first delivered in 4K, perhaps...
 
I believe Dr. Palter is claiming the world’s first laparoscopy surgery in 4K. I brought Evin Grant in with me to shoot our first 4K surgery on March 23, 2008. It was a hip resurfacing surgery shot with 3 RED cameras. First 4K surgery? I don't know but it was beautiful.

Best,

Steve
 
I don't know if you guys looked all the way through the article or not but here's a little gem that I found that I posted on SU.

the photo here is me with mark and Ted from Red with the full Hollywood camera and a prototype of the 3K handheld Scarlet version…
Click to expand...
red.jpg
 
Steve Tammi said:
I believe Dr. Palter is claiming the world’s first laparoscopy surgery in 4K. I brought Evin Grant in with me to shoot our first 4K surgery on March 23, 2008. It was a hip resurfacing surgery shot with 3 RED cameras. First 4K surgery? I don't know but it was beautiful.

Best,

Steve
Click to expand...

I would hate to see a debate such at this get started.. Especially in public... The important thing is that it's being done.

Credit to any and all who move the ball forward!

jay
 
I am amazed...again...at what people are doing with this technology. Everyone at Red must be so proud of these kinds of things. Very cool indeed.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
I would hate to see a debate such at this get started.. Especially in public... The important thing is that it's being done.

Credit to any and all who move the ball forward!

jay
Click to expand...

Jay,

I have no intentions of starting a debate. Thanks for your concern though.

Steve
 
Dr. Palter didn't perform a surgery while someone shot footage of him doing it with a RED ONE... he performed the actual surgery using the RED ONE to see what he was doing. Now that's what I call a "mission critical" use of the camera!
 
Apparently my post was viewed as antagonistic and petty by some. I apologize because that was not my intent. Sometimes I just miss the mark when it comes to forum posting.

I applaud the efforts by Dr. Palter, Offhollywood and everyone involved in the project. Very forward thinking. Congratulations and look forward to what you can do with Epic.

Steve
 
What was accomplished is very cool and interesting. I don't think anyone is debating that...but I would submit that more accurate wording of the declaration of the achievement would not have been such a bad idea either. I wouldn't confuse lobbying for accuracy and clarity with initiating a debate.

Of course, this being reduser, we could debate that distinction...

I kid, I kid...
 
We need affordable 4K displays. So ... any industry with some $$ that can help drive that demand is a good thing.

Words can not express how badly I long a for a 4K display ....

Dear Santa ...
 
Steve Tammi said:
Apparently my post was viewed as antagonistic and petty by some. I apologize because that was not my intent. Sometimes I just miss the mark when it comes to forum posting.

I applaud the efforts by Dr. Palter, Offhollywood and everyone involved in the project. Very forward thinking. Congratulations and look forward to what you can do with Epic.

Steve
Click to expand...

You know buddy, I think that this electronic communication is a very dangerous thing. It's clear from your attention to detail, and your desire to keep everyone on the same page that any misinterpretation, is simply that, a misinterpretation.

The written word can be a dangerous thing without the buffer of body language. Nevertheless, I'm sure there was no harm done, and for me, this was a teachable moment.

I'm quite sure there was no harm done. Nevertheless, your post is a true sign of good character.

Jay
 
The reason why we pushed so hard to couple the Red One to our surgical telescopes was to push the envelope of what is done in the OR. While Mark is correct that medical interest adds resources --the entire theme of my plenary lecture "Film & Medicine" was that EVERY INNOVATION since 1900 in medical visualization in the operating room has FOLLOWED and taken from film entertainment and broadcast industries. So it is actually you people that develop the technology that we doctors adopt to medical imaging. Today the military is also a great contributor to our tech set.

In 2000 we were performing endoscopic surgery in SD and it took me 2 YEARS to convince a video company (JVC at that time) to allow me to adapt a hand held HD camera to OR visualization for a test of HD in the OR. Its 9 years later and this is just now being recogonized as superior and the new standard. When I tried to get that project in 1999 every doctor and camera company said what we do is "good enough" who needs HD? I tracked down the archives of hte first endoscopic surgery with video from the 70's and the surgeons told me they thought their cameras then (taken from entertainment - Black and white with the resolution of a throw away cell phone) was "as good as it would ever get."

When I heard about 4k I belived it would have the same benefit -- it took the people at Red (Ted) all of 5 minutes to sign onto the project! Similarly with Mark and offhollywood-- 5 minutes and they both recognized a potential to push the medical envelope. Last year we did part 1 with the camera jus tin the room as a test and Ted and Fotoken and Sony made that happen and established to me the value of 4K in surgery.

However the medical community is slow to innovate in many ways and set in established methods- and they don't often look outside of medicine to see what is possible. That's why it takes projects like this with all our film industry partneres to show us docs how far better the images can be! Well the physicians at the meeting all saw it and believed it- convinced by the images of digital cinema more than what I did!

What we did was perform the surgery using the camera attached to the surgical scope to actually do the procedure. What is needed to push this to the reality of practice: 1) real time color correct 4K output on a monitor 2) handheld size camera 3) our telescopes need redesign to match the optics of your lenses in quality. On the other forefront we are working on HD3D which is having the same effects but same limitations as well.

Keep up the development efforts!
 
Just read the article after finding it on /.

Very cool stuff. I wish I could have seen the footage in 3D. That must have been awesome.

It's also great to hear about USC helping you out. Makes me proud to be an alumni.

I'm looking forward to what you can do with Epic/Scarlet when they're released.
 
Steven Palter said:
The reason why we pushed so hard to couple the Red One to our surgical telescopes was to push the envelope of what is done in the OR. While Mark is correct that medical interest adds resources --the entire theme of my plenary lecture "Film & Medicine" was that EVERY INNOVATION since 1900 in medical visualization in the operating room has FOLLOWED and taken from film entertainment and broadcast industries. So it is actually you people that develop the technology that we doctors adopt to medical imaging. Today the military is also a great contributor to our tech set.

In 2000 we were performing endoscopic surgery in SD and it took me 2 YEARS to convince a video company (JVC at that time) to allow me to adapt a hand held HD camera to OR visualization for a test of HD in the OR. Its 9 years later and this is just now being recogonized as superior and the new standard. When I tried to get that project in 1999 every doctor and camera company said what we do is "good enough" who needs HD? I tracked down the archives of hte first endoscopic surgery with video from the 70's and the surgeons told me they thought their cameras then (taken from entertainment - Black and white with the resolution of a throw away cell phone) was "as good as it would ever get."

When I heard about 4k I belived it would have the same benefit -- it took the people at Red (Ted) all of 5 minutes to sign onto the project! Similarly with Mark and offhollywood-- 5 minutes and they both recognized a potential to push the medical envelope. Last year we did part 1 with the camera jus tin the room as a test and Ted and Fotoken and Sony made that happen and established to me the value of 4K in surgery.

However the medical community is slow to innovate in many ways and set in established methods- and they don't often look outside of medicine to see what is possible. That's why it takes projects like this with all our film industry partneres to show us docs how far better the images can be! Well the physicians at the meeting all saw it and believed it- convinced by the images of digital cinema more than what I did!

What we did was perform the surgery using the camera attached to the surgical scope to actually do the procedure. What is needed to push this to the reality of practice: 1) real time color correct 4K output on a monitor 2) handheld size camera 3) our telescopes need redesign to match the optics of your lenses in quality. On the other forefront we are working on HD3D which is having the same effects but same limitations as well.

Keep up the development efforts!
Click to expand...

It sounds like you are really going to benefit from the 5K and 6K Scarlets. Smaller form factor plus higher resolution, not to mention a much simpler 3D configuration. Sounds like a winner to me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top