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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED ONE to have slow shutter/intervalometer capability?

Stuart English said:
Slow Shutter no, Timelapse Yes.

When you have a tape based recording solution or a log GOP codec, you must feed the recording system a fixed number of frames per second. RED does not have either of these restrictions, so the same visual look is achieved by operating in Timelapse mode.
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Thanks Stuart! So I guess, the effective answer is, YES! Right?
 
There is a still a difference between shooting, for example, "1fps timelapse with 1 second exposures", and shooting "24fps with frame accumulation to give an effective 1s exposure time" though.

Which one you want will depend on how you want to use it.
Luckily the frame accumulation look can easily be created in post, as long as you know to shoot with a 360 degree shutter in advance.
 
ColinSmith said:
There is a still a difference between shooting, for example, "1fps timelapse with 1 second exposures", and shooting "24fps with frame accumulation to give an effective 1s exposure time" though.
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You can't actually shoot 24fps with a frame accumulation for an effective 1 second exposure time. It's not physically possible -- you'd be bending the laws of physics. You can't take a new picture 24 times a second of a subject, yet expose each of those frames for longer than 1/24th of a second!

So any camera doing "exposure accumulation" is actually capturing at a much slower rate, using a frame buffer, and simply re-writing the information to look normal speed at 24 fps.

So there's no difference between that and simply shooting with an intervolameter and stretching out that footage in post to look normal speed but with a lot of blur per frame, as opposed to sped-up looking at 24 fps. You can create exactly the same look in post with intervolameter footage.
 
As long as I can shoot a night exterior with 0.01 footcandles of ambient moonlight, and still expose for the night sky and a starfield, I'll be happy. I've seen those F350 "accumulated-frame" starlit night exterior shot demos. They looked awesome!
 
Ralph, I would be very shocked if any camera could expose for stars in under 10 seconds... even with the ISO cranked through the roof. Maybe with a full moon, but still, I can't imagine any camera being able to do it at 1fps.

The question a lot of people want to have answered is whether the RED will do long-exposure timelapses, like 45-second night exposures? Right now people can do it with DLSR's, but the post production chore is a real pain compared to the type of recording an HVX does, for example. With an HVX, you shoot a timelapse, and you can play it back right there on camera, which is pretty amazing. With DLSR, you shoot the frames and then you have to stream them together in an NLE later. And for me, because I shoot RAW DLSR timelapses, the post is even more complicated. If the RED could do long-exposure timelapses the way the HVX does short exposure timelapses, that would be amazing.

But as others have pointed out, with DLSRs, they are so cheap you can have several running at once. And if you are going to burn out your sensor or shutter, better to burn out a $700 DLSR body than a $17,000 RED.
 
Tom, Adobe lightroom is excellent for your application. Even Bridge CS3 is great for processing multiple raw files. And since the images are all sequenced, isnt it just a matter of dragging and dropping a folder in Premiere or After Effects or whatever?
 
Tom said:
Right now people can do it with DLSR's, but the post production chore is a real pain compared to the type of recording an HVX does, for example. With an HVX, you shoot a timelapse, and you can play it back right there on camera, which is pretty amazing. With DLSR, you shoot the frames and then you have to stream them together in an NLE later.
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Hey Tom... it's all relative to your background. I have to put on my old timer hat... Even the DSLR technique is fantastically quick and amazing compared to shooting film and dealing with the various issues... often for financial reasons, I'd have to burn through 400' of 35mm before processing... sometimes as long a month before seeing ANYTHING... and that's 20 to 40 shots completely blind with no feedback. Zero. Nada. Zip.

You do tend to get very good with exposure meters within a roll or two. :)

Like you I can't wait to see what RED ultimately brings to the table in this arena...
 
Tom said:
Ralph, I would be very shocked if any camera could expose for stars in under 10 seconds... even with the ISO cranked through the roof. Maybe with a full moon, but still, I can't imagine any camera being able to do it at 1fps.
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Yes, certainly that would require an exposure of several seconds per frame. I guess I misread Stuart's post. I guess the answer (that he clearly stated), is, in fact, "NO," just as Stuart had said. So, there will be no "slow shutter" feature. So, no, I won't be able to emulate the F350's "night with stars" shot with RED.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
You can't actually shoot 24fps with a frame accumulation for an effective 1 second exposure time. It's not physically possible -- you'd be bending the laws of physics. You can't take a new picture 24 times a second of a subject, yet expose each of those frames for longer than 1/24th of a second!
Click to expand...

I'm maybe not explaining very well.

What I am talking about is shooting 24fps with a 360 degree shutter angle, and each 1/24 of a second you write out a frame that is a blend of the previous 24 frames (for example). In that way you have 24 different frames produced each second, and each frame has an "exposure time" of 1 second (or however many frames you choose to blend).

The end result is a rolling exposure, like a series of 1 second exposures, but running at 24fps. No single frame is exposed for more than 1/24 of a second, it is the accumulation and the 360 degree shutter angle that gives the effective longer exposure. This does not do anything for low light shooting, the exposure time for metering is still 1/24s, but it does give the exactly equivalent appearance to a full 1s shutter setting.
 
Ralph Oshiro said:
Yes, certainly that would require an exposure of several seconds per frame. I guess I misread Stuart's post. I guess the answer (that he clearly stated), is, in fact, "NO," just as Stuart had said.
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I wonder what the longest exposure will actually be?

RED is capable of shooting very slow frame rates, correct? (like 1fps?) If so, and that frame rate is the slowest "time-base" for your work, could you have potentially 1 second exposures for your animation/motion control/time-lapse?
 
Stars and stripes

Stars and stripes

Frame integration has been around for some time in astronomy and machine vision cameras.
JVC I think were the first to put it into a three chip box camera in the early eighties. it was great fun to play with.

One of the problems is that dead pixels and noise can become an issue.
In respect to exposing stars any modern video camera is sensative enough to see soem of the brighter stars if it is large enough in frame.

on a wide shot for a time lapse star scape one can use longer exposures to get them to flare and to make dimmer stars visible.


Mike Brennan
 
Stuart English said:
Slow Shutter no, Timelapse Yes.
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Stuart, is the slow shutter (for timelapse work), something that is a hardware limitation, or something in software that could be tweaked to eventually provide that functionality in a future firmware release? Just want to know if this is a "never" thing for timelapse.
 
Jim Arthurs said:
Hey Tom... it's all relative to your background. I have to put on my old timer hat... Even the DSLR technique is fantastically quick and amazing compared to shooting film and dealing with the various issues... often for financial reasons, I'd have to burn through 400' of 35mm before processing... sometimes as long a month before seeing ANYTHING... and that's 20 to 40 shots completely blind with no feedback. Zero. Nada. Zip.
Click to expand...

Haha, I don't know if it was you, Jim, or another "old timer"... but someone here made a great post about how hard timelapse used to be on 35mm. What a freekin' nightmare! I try to remind myself of that when i am slogging through my RAW post-production routine for DLSR timelapse. :)
 
That seems like the heart of the question.

In reference to the frame accumulation mode of the XDCAM-HD...

This by... Mark Falstad;two-time national Emmy award-winning director/cameraman - shooting dogsleds in Alaska.

My favorite pictures were the time lapses of teams arriving using the frame accumulation feature. The camera was set up to record one frame every five seconds for time lapse. With frame accumulation, each recorded frame was made up of 60 frames of video. This basically amplified the light 60 times without any noise. We turned off the Ultralights, and in almost total darkness, I shot a time lapse of teams arriving in Skwentna lit only by the headlamps.

On another 10-degree night, Peter Crithary volunteered to baby-sit the camera for a time lapse of the northern lights, again using the frame accumulation feature. He used one frame every 10 seconds for this time lapse. Even though the aurora was faint, the camera was still able to capture the beautiful lights on a spectacular Alaskan night.
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So my question is - is this -or will this - be possible with Red One?
 
Dear David

Nice to see you across Forums (or is that Fourii).

Back in the last century, I started using DSLR for time-lapse. Youve simply got to try a river shot at 30 seconds. The problem has always been that grey area where the the shots should run in a smooth consecutive flow. The DSLR needs time to store the image or, empty the buffer. For still photographers, a five second burst is the most they ever need. The RED would be nice if you could dial in up to 2 frames per min and this would bridge the gap.

Mind you, Mr. Pancro would make a fortune. "Hand me the ND3 please. No not the .3, the 3

Jon Armstrong
Adelaide South Australia
jon@nildersperandum.tv
http://www.nildesperandum.tv
 
For timelapse especially it would be nice if we could dial in some low low ISOs.....
 
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