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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED ONE or Scarlet

M

McKay Olson

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Hi. I can't decide which camera to buy. It doesn't matter in terms of price, which is the better camera? Thanks!
 
The questions you need to be asking yourself are:

Do you need 2k 120fps? (Red One can, Scarlet can't)
Do you need 4.5k? (Red One can, Scarlet can't)
Do you need HDRx? (Scarlet can, Red One can't)

Scarlet-X $9,750 Base
Red One $25,00 Base
 
In favor of Scarlet too: smaller, newer (easier to sell), 5k for still or time-lapse, 16bits vs 12bits.
 
Well, in my case i own R1 and Epic. I wanted a scarlet (but the original 2/3 scarlet)....i seem to think the R1 is better today than the scarlet, but Scarlet likely has more upgrade options down the road. I don't want to shoot 4k cropped or 3k severlely cropped. with R1 shooting 4k...i get what i see and don't deal with cropping of the sensor like when i then go to 3k or 2k using R1. Other issues then arise. So with Scarlet, i get that right away when wanting to shoot 3k overcranked....

this all said, i would assume Scarlet has a better upgrade path....as R1 might not get past a few more years.

.....then just for broke with the epic....
 
you shoot the same 4k on the R1 and on the scarlet, same sensor area. "social network" was shot at 4k with an epic equivalent red code of 7.5:1 (Redcode 42). the scarlet can shoot 4k at 6:1. so it should be better. I agree that you don't have the same slowmo but anyway, on vimeo and youtube 80% of the red footages are slowmo. in 6 months slowmo will be so "2011". Same for cropped area. I personally like the idea to be able to change my fov and see a bit of grain. Exactly the same when you're picking up a 16mm camera: more grain, different field of view, crop factor. many different looks in one camera.
 
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i'm not positive about this, but i believe you are cropping MORE of the sensor in Scarlet....R1 you are utilizing the full sensor in 4k as i see it in practice. I could stand corrected on this, but if Scarlet is a 5k sensor...then when shooting 4k, you are cropping from that right away.....as apposed to shooting R1 at native 4k.
 
Johnny Friday said:
i'm not positive about this, but i believe you are cropping MORE of the sensor in Scarlet....R1 you are utilizing the full sensor in 4k as i see it in practice. I could stand corrected on this, but if Scarlet is a 5k sensor...then when shooting 4k, you are cropping from that right away.....as apposed to shooting R1 at native 4k.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that they all have the same MX sensor, Epic, Scarlet, R1MX... 4k is the same area on all of them, same pixel pitch etc. EPIC and Scarlet just have access to the full 5K ~APS-H sensor area that R1 does not and have 16b ADC, but R1 can do 4.5k at 24fps whereas Scarlet can at most do 4k at 24fps due to processing limitations. 4k is the same ~35mm (~APS-C) sized area on all cameras.
 
Johnny Friday said:
i'm not positive about this, but i believe you are cropping MORE of the sensor in Scarlet....R1 you are utilizing the full sensor in 4k as i see it in practice. I could stand corrected on this, but if Scarlet is a 5k sensor...then when shooting 4k, you are cropping from that right away.....as apposed to shooting R1 at native 4k.
Click to expand...


yes, but having had shot 4k quad hd off an epic in a windowed mode, I can honestly say that, it's still better than shooting full sensor off a R1 in my honest opinion. the better compression ratios alone give a better fidelity to the image, and honestly at that point, it really feels like comparing "2k to 1080p" you won't get a cleaner image doing a 4k finish than off a epic, but I honestly doubt you'd be able to tell the difference right off the bat. It's still insanely sharp and vibrant. All the other benefits of lower compression and in a smaller package really out weigh the fact that your windowing a bit to shoot.

edit: and to the actual topic, the Scarlet to me is the natural replacement for the R1 to fill in that midpoint gap now. Epic is a full 2-3 tiers higher now, and RED is providing for a market that they created in the beginning, and tapping into a higher end as well. R1 will still give you great images, but at the price of a scarlet package, where 20-23k can give you a complete shooting package. the r1 complete would have to be half that price to be worth the purchase.
 
Tom.Wong said:
... R1 will still give you great images, but at the price of a scarlet package, where 20-23k can give you a complete shooting package. the r1 complete would have to be half that price to be worth the purchase.
Click to expand...

At the moment R1MX used prices (~$14k) are approaching Scarlet's price, and since Scarlet is not even available yet, it is likely that they will reach a pretty similar price point once Scarlet is actually available.

The question to the OP then becomes what makes a better camera to you? If you want the highest specs, R1MX is still better, with 2k 120fps and 4.5k motion also it has more recording media options with reddrive, cf, ssd and proven stability now. I have heard various reports of instability with Epic, and Scarlet may be a similar story at the start though it is hard to know what is true and with might be user error etc. Scarlet is likely a better investment in the long run at this point, but if, as the OP says, value is no issue, then I suppose that doesnt matter to him. Does size and weight matter? HDRx? 120fps? You'll have to decide. With cameras like with anything there is no good-better-best, there is only what is best for you or for your project.
 
..max image size on the Scarlet is listed at 5120 x 2700 The Red One is listed as 4480 x 2304. That being said, I am asking myself the same question right now...R1 or Scarlet? I have to be honest here, I am after the most bang for my buck, the R1 packages being offered for sale at the moment are insane. You are talking about a fully blown ready to shoot package with all the bells and whistles, spares and custom cut foam shipping boxes etc etc etc. $15k for a Scarlet starter kit or 16-17k for a proven complete kit anyone would be proud to own....

Other than physical size and the lack of HDRX on the R1, can I adapt my movie, projects, business to the R1? I am 99% curtain I can. Do I really need 5k if it's not at full 24fps? It would be nice for stills, but is that my business? Chances are I can get by with 4.5k for that...

The list of pros and cons is endless and as varied as everyone's business here on Reduser. The time old question, which camera best suites my purpose and which is the best value for my money? That's pretty much it, ask yourself that question and be honest to yourself with the answers. You can't go wrong.
 
If I want 120fps in HD then the RED One is what I need.
 
Like this Thread its nice to hear everyones perspective.

I guess the Moral of the story is, get what you need for what you do, and ultimately thats up to you.

Scarlet-X, done deal, size and HDR are the tipping points for me. Slow mo is cool, but being over used.

Also for me Scarlet-X is an entry camera, to learn and shoot some films on so I can transition to Epic.

Red One is great, but too bulky for my projects.
 
RED1 will be inevitably discontinued, and much sooner than Scarlet,.
AND, when you'll be upgrading to Epic, or renting it, all you need is just a brain, all accessories are the same
 
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