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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED ONE MX vs Sony F35

Bruce Allen said:
I don't think that only being clean at ISO 800 really makes Dragon anything other than a mediocre digital camera in low light these days!

I saw Cioni's Panavision test in 8K at Cinegear and color was OK but the content was landscapes, not CUs of people. Landscapes are 100x more forgiving of imperfect color IMHO than portraits.

It'd also note that it was pretty darn noisy on a pixel level!

As for Bad Blood or Straight Outta Compton, those would have also looked great if they were shot on, well, probably a dozen other camera models. Great production design, DP, makeup, grading, vfx, etc.

Talent (your case included, Nick, since you're a talented guy) and grading can make up for mediocre color. Just my 2c.

BTW, I don't really rate much in the digital world as having excellent color. I was at a screening of Fuji 35mm film vs Alexa vs RED at Cinegear a few years ago and digital (including Alexa) just SUCKED compared to film. Of course with grading you can fix it... but you gotta call things the way they are.

Alexa, F35 and Dragon STH at their best are maybe "very good". Canon 5D Mk2 and the Fuji and Olympus cams would rate as "very inaccurate but suprisingly un-terrible in certain circumstances, just horribly low-res"... most of the rest are mostly mediocre. OK, F65 is great at saturated colors and sometimes suprisingly beautiful with skin. The Fairchild sensor Blackmagic uses in some of their cams is promising (though you have to IR filter it right). If you want spectacular out of the box, well, that's film. For now!

Not saying you or I or any of the other talented folks on this forum couldn't make everything look good of course :)

Bruce Allen
www.twitter.com/bruce_allen
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Another reason why you are one of my fave posters on RU, Bruce. Serious, demanding, experienced, and fair. Your totally right, too - ultimately, its often the artist (not the tool) making the magic (though picking the right tools obv helps!).

Happy labor day all!!
Best
 
Interestingly, I will be shooting a feature where I was given the option of a R1 or F35 and I will be choosing the F35. I discussed it with David Mullen in his thread, who also agreed he would go with the F35 in this case.

The R1 is just much harder to work with, has less dynamic range and a few more limitations than the F35. I also prefer the look of the F35. I think it looks more like film. About the only thing the R1 offers over the F35 is 4K. But honestly this is not my biggest worry when it comes to choosing cameras for projects.

If I had a R1 package and would find somebody to swap it with a F35 package I would do it without thinking twice.
 
I have not used an F35 personally, but all of the footage I've tinkered with (already transcoded to prores or similar) was definitely spectacular. And I've also seen used F35 bodies for less than $5k, which is... just... I don't even know.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Another reason why you are one of my fave posters on RU, Bruce. Serious, demanding, experienced, and fair. Your totally right, too - ultimately, its often the artist (not the tool) making the magic (though picking the right tools obv helps!).

Happy labor day all!!
Best
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:cheers2: - always good reading your posts too, Nick. I learn a ton!

BTW, we work in the same industry doing promos (I'm technical director at mOcean in LA). I love your ART OF THE PROMO thread. It's insane that more people don't even know that industry exists. Next time you're over in LA give me a shout, visit mOcean and come and swap war stories :)

Maybe Mike who asked the original question can share more of his work or details of the project. It really depends...

Otherwise, I don't know anyone with an F35 in Chicago. We'll probably test F35 against some of the newer cams in LA soon - a7rII, Ursa 4.6k sensor (in either a Mini or a Big Ursa), Dragon, film, whatever newer cams Sony announces, etc. Matt Uhry, Mac and I tested the F35 against my GH4 and it beat my GH4 so badly that everyone got upset at him on dvxuser. I don't know what they expected - Matt and I still use the GH4 for stuff but it's not exactly a competitor. Mac also tested against the Amira and the Amira was a little better, but not enough for it to matter. Would like to do better tests.

Believe it or not, I don't particularly want to use the F35. It's heavy, it's not 4K, etc. It's just that once you use it, the stuff you shot on the other cams doesn't look as hot!

Bruce Allen
www.twitter.com/bruce_allen
 
It seems like most of everyone that has used both cameras favors the F35. If I could find someone who could do a clean trade with me i don't think i would hesitate. I'm finding that the RED can at times be hard to work with but not enough to consider it a real issue. The only thing i have an issue with (and its a personal one due to money) is the CF cards dont let you record for long times which has actually lost me a few freelance gigs. If i could find a F35 with a nikon mount and i could invest in a hyperdeck and cheap SDI monitor i'd be all over the change in gear. the 4K files choke my macbook pro (not too bad but going from editing in real time to not its a hindrance), and i honestly dont need 4K right now. I also am not a huge fan of doing heavy post work on my images, i like getting as close as i can to the final look in camera and i see the red one is kind of made for grading and post work but again i am still fairly fresh to the RED way of things and i have no idea if the F35 is the same way, but i do know that working with 1080p files would be a blessing compared to shooting 4k, editing in 1080p and mastering in 1080p. If any of you know of someone willing to do a trade please get in touch with me, or at the very least know of someone with an F35 in Chicago where i could shoot side by side tests and see if i like its workflow, etc, etc.
 
Mike,

Try DVXUSER.COM.

Theres a whole area devoted to the F35 there and probably be more up for whatever it is you're doing.
 
Mike Krumlauf said:
It seems like most of everyone that has used both cameras favors the F35. If I could find someone who could do a clean trade with me i don't think i would hesitate. I'm finding that the RED can at times be hard to work with but not enough to consider it a real issue. The only thing i have an issue with (and its a personal one due to money) is the CF cards dont let you record for long times which has actually lost me a few freelance gigs. If i could find a F35 with a nikon mount and i could invest in a hyperdeck and cheap SDI monitor i'd be all over the change in gear. the 4K files choke my macbook pro (not too bad but going from editing in real time to not its a hindrance), and i honestly dont need 4K right now. I also am not a huge fan of doing heavy post work on my images, i like getting as close as i can to the final look in camera and i see the red one is kind of made for grading and post work but again i am still fairly fresh to the RED way of things and i have no idea if the F35 is the same way, but i do know that working with 1080p files would be a blessing compared to shooting 4k, editing in 1080p and mastering in 1080p. If any of you know of someone willing to do a trade please get in touch with me, or at the very least know of someone with an F35 in Chicago where i could shoot side by side tests and see if i like its workflow, etc, etc.
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There are a couple of F35s on eBay for under $5000 for the bodies, 4:4:4, etc.
 
Bruce Allen said:
:cheers2: - always good reading your posts too, Nick. I learn a ton!

BTW, we work in the same industry doing promos (I'm technical director at mOcean in LA). I love your ART OF THE PROMO thread. It's insane that more people don't even know that industry exists. Next time you're over in LA give me a shout, visit mOcean and come and swap war stories :)
Bruce Allen
www.twitter.com/bruce_allen
Click to expand...

Holy cow, you work at mOcean, that's awesome!! What a small world!! You guys just hired Jon Monson-Foon, a great producer who was at A&E...who I think is super talented!!! Please tell him I said hi!

I'll PM you now (as I'll be in LA in November!).

best
 
Mike, if you're looking for *relatively* cheap PL glass the Sony primes that used to come with the F3K kit are pretty abundant and thus pretty cheap. You can find the 3 lens package (35, 50 and 85mm) for $1700 - $2000 with some patience.
 
Bruce Allen said:
Absolutely no contest: if you don't need to deliver 4K, F35 wins by a mile over Mysterium-X (in Red One or Epic).
- great color
- great latitude
- very sharp
- pleasant, filmic grain structure
- zero rolling shutter
- easy ProRes workflow (when plugged into one of the many monitors that use ProRes - I personally use an Odyssey 7q+ but you could use a $500 Blackmagic 1080p monitor/recorder, etc)

I just directed a web series and the DP chose to use it. We tested against Amira and the difference wasn't enough to pay extra for the Amira.

Dragon sensor starts to make things more competitive, though.

But I'd put the F35 on a short list of cameras, incl. Alexa, Dragon and film where a skilled person with the right conditions can achieve world-class results, not limited by equipment.

Of course it's heavy and also not a fantastic low-light camera. But again, neither is Dragon.

Bruce Allen
www.twitter.com/bruce_allen
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correct. Color and dynamic range on F35 destroy the R1 MX. And I'm an R1 MX current owner and love my cam. But the colors are not even close
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
Mike,

Try DVXUSER.COM.

Theres a whole area devoted to the F35 there and probably be more up for whatever it is you're doing.
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Yes reach out to Ed David there. He knows quite alot about F35, and enjoys using it (he also shoots on RED One's).
 
Wanted to update you all and let you know my RED ONE MX sold and I purchased a Sony F3 W/ Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle for recording out the SDI. After looking at my research and what I needed, I think the F3 is a better fit for me. I'd really like to own an F35 down the line (as well as a plethora of other cams) but the F3 will do for now. Thanks everyone for your help and info.
 
Mike, I have used all 3 of the cameras you discuss, and I liked things about each one. I do think you'll have a little shakeout period confirming that you are getting a good recording trigger for the Hyperdeck. I think you'll be pleased with the immediacy of results... but about S-Log.. it's not always needed or even desirable.. I find that daytime exteriors frequently worked better without Log capture.
 
Mike Krumlauf said:
Wanted to update you all and let you know my RED ONE MX sold and I purchased a Sony F3 W/ Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle for recording out the SDI. After looking at my research and what I needed, I think the F3 is a better fit for me. I'd really like to own an F35 down the line (as well as a plethora of other cams) but the F3 will do for now. Thanks everyone for your help and info.
Click to expand...

Mike, after nearly a year of using the F3, how are you finding it vs your old RED One MX? :)
 
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