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Red One MX vs Canon 1d x mii

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Al Merto

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About to shoot an indie feature this October and need advice on which to get as an A cam.

B cam is C100 mark II for low light and a BMPC 4K for green screen acquisition.

I'm gonna shoot run and gun and I'm leaning towards the 1dx mii (auto-focus, dials, screen, better low light, lenses) but I really want to shoot my first feature with a proper cine cam like RED which is coincidentally easier on the budget and has a lot of things I really like ie image, workflow, slow motion, resolution.

So it's basically convenience of Canon vs image of RED.
 
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RED ONE MX

You will be glad you did particularly once you start color grading.
Applying IPP 2 makes this case even more.

If you have a mount that allows using still camera lenses (Birger EF or Nikon mount)
you can definitely build the camera for run and gun.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
I have my sights on R1mx with a Nikon mount and this is what's killing me...all my still lenses for filming have Canon mount.

If I can be sure that modern Nikkor lenses would fit and function on that R1, I wont mind investing on a modern zoom.

I heard only old nikkor lenses with aperture rings functions/fit best with the regular Nikon mount of the R1
 
As Brian mentioned, the Red One MX still has a lot to offer after all these years, especially being able to use IPP2 in post. Here is a recent spot I did using a Red One MX with Xeen primes. I applied IPP2 in post and color grading was a breeze.


As far as Nikon F mounts there is a mount that allows for the use of G series lenses (G series do not have aperture rings) that was manufactured by OptiTek. I have one and it works great for older lenses and newer G series.
 
Im losing my mind on R1 MX files I recently downloaded. RedRaw is really on a different level.
 
As the owner of both the RED One MX and Canon 1DX Mark II, I think both are compelling choices for an indie feature, but for very different reasons.

RED One MX has great image quality, REDCODE RAW is wonderful, and it can shoot longer than 30 minute takes.

HOWEVER...

The 1DX II also has excellent image quality with significantly better low light performance. As long as you get exposure and white balance correct when shooting, the images look gorgeous as well (click here for great 1DX II footage). It's much lighter weight, which means your tripod doesn't need to be nearly as heavy duty as one for the RED (never mind the batteries for the 1DX II are tiny compared to V-Lock for the RED). Also, the face-tracking autofocus on the 1DX II is nothing short of magical. If you're using Canon autofocus lenses, it's like having a pro-level focus puller in your crew for free. Seriously. That right there could mean your overall shoot time will be shorter than if you're blowing take after take because of soft focus using manual lenses on the RED One. Plus, the 1DX II turns on in about 1.5 seconds. The RED One takes substantially longer to power up. The whole kit fits inside a backpack, and you won't attract nearly as much attention out in public.

Bottom line: If you have a decent, experienced crew, the RED One MX is a great choice for a feature film. If you're going guerrilla style with just you running around as director/DoP/camera operator, I would strongly recommend the 1DX Mark II instead. Your shooting life will be much, MUCH simpler, and you will get BETTER results because of it. Honestly, the audience won't care if you shot RAW or 8-bit 4:2:2, but they WILL care if your shots are out of focus.
 
Jaime Vallés said:
As the owner of both the RED One MX and Canon 1DX Mark II, I think both are compelling choices for an indie feature, but for very different reasons.

RED One MX has great image quality, REDCODE RAW is wonderful, and it can shoot longer than 30 minute takes.

HOWEVER...

The 1DX II also has excellent image quality with significantly better low light performance. As long as you get exposure and white balance correct when shooting, the images look gorgeous as well (click here for great 1DX II footage). It's much lighter weight, which means your tripod doesn't need to be nearly as heavy duty as one for the RED (never mind the batteries for the 1DX II are tiny compared to V-Lock for the RED). Also, the face-tracking autofocus on the 1DX II is nothing short of magical. If you're using Canon autofocus lenses, it's like having a pro-level focus puller in your crew for free. Seriously. That right there could mean your overall shoot time will be shorter than if you're blowing take after take because of soft focus using manual lenses on the RED One. Plus, the 1DX II turns on in about 1.5 seconds. The RED One takes substantially longer to power up. The whole kit fits inside a backpack, and you won't attract nearly as much attention out in public.

Bottom line: If you have a decent, experienced crew, the RED One MX is a great choice for a feature film. If you're going guerrilla style with just you running around as director/DoP/camera operator, I would strongly recommend the 1DX Mark II instead. Your shooting life will be much, MUCH simpler, and you will get BETTER results because of it. Honestly, the audience won't care if you shot RAW or 8-bit 4:2:2, but they WILL care if your shots are out of focus.
Click to expand...

If I get both...they wouldn't match would they?
 
Al Merto said:
If I get both...they wouldn't match would they?
Click to expand...

They certainly look quite different out of the box, but an experienced colorist would probably be able to make the R1 match the 1DX in post. I've never tried to match them, since I haven't used them on the same shoot. Are you able to do tests with both before having to commit to one or the other?
 
The samples I got were literally night and day....day scenes for the Red and night scenes for the 1DXMII.

I havent worked with arri files on Resolve but I think Redcode is the most robust codec out there. BMagic raw from the BMPC 4K is just not on the same level of Red's color science.

Canon is also unbelievable for doing what it can on 8bit. The way one can push the grade of C100 and 1Dxmii is pretty surprising but banding is very evident on bright sky scenes (c100m2)

The night footage I got from the 1DXm2 was taken with the cheap 50mm 1.8 and the 24-105 F4...I think. Ambient outside lighting only but the colors pop out like John Wick 2 night scenes.

I decided to take the 1DXmii first cause I can get it now on a very sweet deal ($300 off plus free Hero 5 and a cheap drone) from my side of the planet. I will get the cheapest R1 MX I can find next.

Day scenes Red. Night scenes Canon.
 
Al Merto said:
About to shoot an indie feature this October and need advice on which to get as an A cam.

B cam is C100 mark II for low light and a BMPC 4K for green screen acquisition.

I'm gonna shoot run and gun and I'm leaning towards the 1dx mii (auto-focus, dials, screen, better low light, lenses) but I really want to shoot my first feature with a proper cine cam like RED which is coincidentally easier on the budget and has a lot of things I really like ie image, workflow, slow motion, resolution.

So it's basically convenience of Canon vs image of RED.
Click to expand...

I'd make the BMPCC4K your B cam and A cam!

Yes, even in lowlight. The BMPCC4K is meant to share its sensor with the GH5S, which means the BMPCC4K will be very very good at low light. I'd choose it over a C100, and any RED (except Gemini of course!).

As for using a RED ONE MX? (let's forget about the M!)

Nope. Even though I've worked on four feature films using a RED ONE, it is not a camera I'd leap to recommend in 2018.

Edit:

Uh oh.

I just did a double read of what you wrote, you said BMPC 4K (the BMD Production Camera 4K) not the BMD Pocket Cinema Camera 4K (BMPCC4K).

Errrr..... well, never mind then! I rate the BMPC 4K at broadly more or less kinda the same ish as the RED ONE. Certainly a very very VERY different camera to what the BMPCC4K will be!
 
Jaime Vallés said:
Bottom line: If you have a decent, experienced crew, the RED One MX is a great choice for a feature film. If you're going guerrilla style with just you running around as director/DoP/camera operator, I would strongly recommend the 1DX Mark II instead. Your shooting life will be much, MUCH simpler, and you will get BETTER results because of it. Honestly, the audience won't care if you shot RAW or 8-bit 4:2:2, but they WILL care if your shots are out of focus.
Click to expand...

I certainly agree with this. But most low budget crews/DoPs who are considering a RED ONE MX will not have the extensive lighting gear and heavy duty support gear that a R1 needs to shine.
 
David Peterson said:
I'd make the BMPCC4K your B cam and A cam!

Yes, even in lowlight. The BMPCC4K is meant to share its sensor with the GH5S, which means the BMPCC4K will be very very good at low light. I'd choose it over a C100, and any RED (except Gemini of course!).

As for using a RED ONE MX? (let's forget about the M!)

Nope. Even though I've worked on four feature films using a RED ONE, it is not a camera I'd leap to recommend in 2018.

Edit:

Uh oh.

I just did a double read of what you wrote, you said BMPC 4K (the BMD Production Camera 4K) not the BMD Pocket Cinema Camera 4K (BMPCC4K).

Errrr..... well, never mind then! I rate the BMPC 4K at broadly more or less kinda the same ish as the RED ONE. Certainly a very very VERY different camera to what the BMPCC4K will be!
Click to expand...

I want to consider the upcoming BM pocket cinema 4k but who knows when it will release and how stable will it be. I'm about to shoot second week this October so I need to decide on what will be available to me within the next two weeks.

I kinda like the GH5s color rendition but I heard the native file workflow is challenging for the editing/grading hardware. I can go external monitor to DnxHD/Prores route but the price between a new GH5s and an ancient but working R1 MX is pretty close I'd rather have that S35 look natively than MetaBoost my way through it.

I'm planning to shoot the R1 on daylight OUTSIDE...you mean the power of the sun can't make this camera shine? The problems I have on this situation is not the lack of lighting but how to fight it (with ND's and diffusion)

Convenience wise, the modern Micro 4/3 are nice to consider but I don't wanna wake up one day and realize I shot my first feature with them over a RED. I love the image and the cadence coming out of the RED and that' s what it boils down to.

Let me face the nightmares I'd be having shooting on ONE.
 
It is not even a contest in my view when it comes to if I'd choose to shoot now a feature with a RED ONE or a GH5S (don't even need to use a focal reducer, as plenty of lovely native lenses exist!).

And nope, the post workflow with a GH5S is zero challenge, I'm not sure why you're thinking it is?? (don't need an external recorder either! Not unless you want to do a lot of 4K 60fps 10bit)
 
First, I don't have native M4/3 lenses. I only have Canon and some Nikon lenses.

Second, I'm not the one saying GH5/s files are hard to work with...it's all over YouTube.

How about aliasing, moire and rolling shutter on the Panasonic? What's your opinion on them?
 
UPDATE:

I just plucked one off EBAY:

Red One MX W/Side SSD

This is a great camera. It comes with the following accessories.

Red One MX Camera

Side SSD

1x Element Technica breakout box

1x Audio adapter cable

Gold Mount & V Mount adapter

Rain Cover

PL Mount

All Star Cine A Mount

A Mount adapters for Contax and Nikon

Power Cable


So let's see how this turns out...
 
Al Merto said:
UPDATE:

I just plucked one off EBAY:

Red One MX W/Side SSD

This is a great camera. It comes with the following accessories.

Red One MX Camera

Side SSD

1x Element Technica breakout box

1x Audio adapter cable

Gold Mount & V Mount adapter

Rain Cover

PL Mount

All Star Cine A Mount

A Mount adapters for Contax and Nikon

Power Cable


So let's see how this turns out...
Click to expand...


Congrats and welcome to the family! :)
 
Al Merto said:
First, I don't have native M4/3 lenses. I only have Canon and some Nikon lenses.

Second, I'm not the one saying GH5/s files are hard to work with...it's all over YouTube.

How about aliasing, moire and rolling shutter on the Panasonic? What's your opinion on them?
Click to expand...

1) that is fine, the beauty of the MFT mount is you can adapt almost anything to it with ease! (even easier than using on a RED ONE that is for sure!) Such as your Canons or Nikons

2) please point out where specifically. As this is strange news to me! And I'm a very close follower of the GH series (from the earliest days! I started out with the Panasonic GH1 as my first video camera, when back at film school). My gut guess is it is just some youtubers who are used to say 1080 8bit files, so of course 4K 10bit comes as a shock to them! ha

3) GH5/GH5S are near top in class for performance in those areas.
 
Al Merto said:
Red One MX Camera

Side SSD

All Star Cine A Mount

A Mount adapters for Contax and Nikon
Click to expand...

That is fantastic you got the MX sensor, with SSD, and Nikon mount. Those would be the three core features I'd be looking for if I purchased a RED ONE myself.

How much did you pay for the kit?
 
David Peterson said:
I certainly agree with this. But most low budget crews/DoPs who are considering a RED ONE MX will not have the extensive lighting gear and heavy duty support gear that a R1 needs to shine.
Click to expand...

Al Merto said:
UPDATE:

I just plucked one off EBAY:

Red One MX W/Side SSD

This is a great camera. It comes with the following accessories.

Red One MX Camera

Side SSD

1x Element Technica breakout box

1x Audio adapter cable

Gold Mount & V Mount adapter

Rain Cover

PL Mount

All Star Cine A Mount

A Mount adapters for Contax and Nikon

Power Cable


So let's see how this turns out...
Click to expand...

Sounds like you picked up a decent package.
Hope it works out for you.

You have a camera that was built for cinema with one of the best codecs around and a decent sound recording subsystem.
Even in 2018 that camera packs a powerful punch. I have shot narrative, doc, and music video around the U.S. and even overseas with my R1 and a lot was run and gun including a bit of one man band work. I can tell you from my own experience that you can film in a lot of situations and get the results you want.
Also the camera is better in low light than what many believe. Test and come to your own conclusions. PM me if you need any advise.

P.S. - Nice work on the promo Chad.


Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
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