Red one Mx or Ursa Mini 46k

[Dino Jakovic]

I am in the same boat last week and decided on BMCC 2.5k over Ursa and mx why? Just like red mx black magic has put all their love in 2.5k version. 4k and ursa are nice cameras but they have their own issues for me the deal breaker was to dam sharp and digital. I am all for that film fell and dynamic range. I know its all abut 4k 5k 8k but for me 2.5 k raw 13 stops of dynamic range is way enough and 2.5k up ress nicely to UHD. I almost got red mx but was afraid of weight and if soothing goes wrong i am out 4k plus another 600 for a mount for my lenses that i have now not PL. Another fear was if it was to bulky i might just put it on a shelf even though it shoots 4.5k.. For 3k i got BMCC MFT with speed booster gets me close to s35 full resolve nice external monitor camera cage and plus my 2009 mac can handle 2.5k raw with no problems also i am not crazy about slow motion and BMCC is really good in low light not the best but better then red scarlet gh4 other few cameras. Consider BMCC here if good review this guys knows his camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHx6t8vO8D4

 

[Rolf Kestermann]

Owning both cameras, the Ursa Mini 4.6K is by no means faster. It has a better out of the box DR and seems to look deeper into the lower greys, but it is a 400ASA camera and there is nothing good to find at a higher ASA. The R1 set at 800 ASA is about the same sensitivity, but You need to stay away from redcolor 2,3,4 and use redlog film together with your own curves. I believe the R1 to be equal in low light. The Ursa however is sharper in return of occasional moraine issues and the rolling shutter effect is way worse than the reds. But the camera is complete, shoots Raw and Prores and is well designed for the purpose
unlike most Red stuff after the R1.

 

[C. Burkhart]

Do you really need 4K ?
I have found that my Sony F3 with SLOG/Recorder still blows those two cameras out of the water for highlight rolloff, skin tones and dependability. And guess what ? You can find one for $2000.
Way better than a DSLR in terms of ease of use. Could be an interesting bridge as you save money for a more modern package. Also, the URSA 4.6k has HUGE quality control issues, the magenta corners and FPN has not disappeared with firmware upgrades. It's a real crapshoot. I wouldn't go there for any reason.

 

[Zack Birlew]

My brother and I went through this same exact decision some months ago, although we were looking at the Ursa 4K as the 4.6K wasn't available yet. Ultimately it came down to the quality control issues of the BM cameras and our overall familiarity with the RED brand as well as its proven image and track record. The extra frame rates at 2K didn't hurt either!

Now having shot mostly tests for our upcoming feature, we've decided to swap our camera arrangement around from a primarily Sony A7S 4K shoot with RED One MX for VFX shots to a full on RED One MX shoot. The quality and benefits of REDCode RAW couldn't be ignored and while I love the A7S, we simply need much more image control than what 8-bit uncompressed 4K can give.

As for getting a RED, I second the comments about the RED One MX, it is heavy and accessories can be pricey, especially those SSDs! But when it's all set up, you've got it and it's smooth sailing from there. My recommendations are to get an AC unit for when you're static, get the 7" RED LCD vs the 5.6" or a brighter modern LCD, and get newer and lighter batteries. As for tripods, if you're not doing anything too wild, I got a rather inexpensive 75mm heavy duty tripod off of Amazon that works just fine. This is a BIG camera even without a mattebox and follow focus so don't expect to just be able to simply tilt and pan this thing like a tiny DSLR.

We are indeed all spoiled for options these days and, personally, if I had the money, those Kinefinity Terra cameras looked superb for the price. We wanted to get Sony FS700 for RAW high speed as well but I don't know if that would be a good A-camera alternative as the Sony professional cameras, in my opinion, just don't look as filmic as the RED, Kinefinity, or Blackmagic cameras do. However, the A7S and other Sony DSLRs do, go figure. :/

Really, it feels like the high point of HD cameras, for image quality you can't really go wrong, they're all 4K and they all look fantastic. It's all about features and workflow. Still, looking back at the RED One MX, there's still no modern camera that can match it for the price.

 

[sam haboush]

Zach, Your right. That was why my final decision came down to the mx. I actually moved from the fs700 and while the slow motion was just amazing. I had the hardest time getting away from that videoish look. I have seen footage with the oddessy 7q and it still looked videoish ( though better) . Sony's color science is awful for any 4k under 10k( in my opinion) and lets say you get the fs700u. To upgrade by sony it will be, I believe 400 or 700, so it becomes a fs700r , then you have to buy a recorder which will be 1500+ then you have to buy a licence for the recorder for the fs700 so in the end, that 3k fs700 ended up being a 7 to 8k with ssds etcs. and even then, the image is not even close to the r1mx ( in my opinion.) So its really up to the person, if you want slow motion on a budget, fs700. If you want great color sony f3 with 444 or even canon c100 , c300 mk1,2 c500, etc, red one mx . I love the kinemini 4k look. The DR is so rich to me and with the small form factor, that opens up a lot more possibilities. I was actually hoping the craft camera would come out in 2016 but that became a bust. The Terra, though they advertise $5k or $6k. the package is more like $10k but thats 6k and I believe red was or is in a lawsuit with them, which then tells me of the quality that is coming out of these little guys. even the ursa mini 4.6, have they even resolved the magenta tint? I heard the customer service was not great with bmd.
-Sam Haboush

 

[Mikko Suomalainen]

I had the Red One MX for 4 years, and I just sold it and bought the Ursa Mini 4.6K.

I loved the image quality of RED, but I'm not missing it at all. The image is great in Ursa, the DR is amazing, only the file sizes are big. Redcode is very efficient way to record.

Lately when I still had the One, I only used it for bigger jobs and I picked my GH4 for any smaller geeks, even if I never quite liked the image.
Now with the Ursa Mini, it's so much lighter and easier so I'm taking it to every job.

Go for the Ursa Mini, or some other modern camera.

 

[Ryan Hamblin]

I can't say enough good things about the little 4.6k. Nowadays cameras are just good

 

[Aaron michaels]

Don't hate on the Red one because these new cameras still can compare to it. This camera has many feature films under its belt. What can you say about the other cameras? This camera invented the working 4K...and your camera?? Who would trade in a Red One for a Ursa??? Really?? Novice??? If you can't handle Beautiful RAW footage for your project then you did the right thing. Don't get on Red user and shoot down the cameras we love and the company that builds great cameras for us, Move over to the Black Magic site and compare your camera to RED's. This is like having a birthday party and the unknown guess starts blowing out your candles before you, It's ok to talk about what you have but to change the mood about what we have save major money to own kills the vibe. Have some respect or do like MJ and beat it.:reddevil:

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Don't hate on the Red one because these new cameras still can compare to it. This camera has many feature films under its belt. What can you say about the other cameras? This camera invented the working 4K...and your camera?? Who would trade in a Red One for a Ursa??? Really?? Novice??? If you can't handle Beautiful RAW footage for your project then you did the right thing. Don't get on Red user and shoot down the cameras we love and the company that builds great cameras for us, Move over to the Black Magic site and compare your camera to RED's. This is like having a birthday party and the unknown guess starts blowing out your candles before you, It's ok to talk about what you have but to change the mood about what we have save major money to own kills the vibe. Have some respect or do like MJ and beat it.:reddevil:

I didn't get the impression they were hating on the Red One so much as offering their impressions of what they found to be the better option for their particular needs. I actually considered an Ursa Mini 4.6k thinking maybe it would be a good fit on certain projects but I got scared away by the quality control issues with Blackmagic's cameras. From the magenta issues to bad ports, I just didn't feel comfortable with it. I do own a Pocket and that is a great bang for the buck even with its issues. I'll never sell the R1 because despite it being a tool, it also symbolizes a turning point in my career, so someday it will just go on the shelf not sold for low money or dumped in a landfill.I'm a bit surprised with the way technology has forged ahead that I can still get a lot of use out of it in 2017. Kudos to RED for building it like a tank and putting pretty good sensors in it that would hold up over a decade. Not a bad rookie accomplishment.

 

[Rolf Kestermann]

I didn't get the impression they were hating on the Red One so much as offering their impressions of what they found to be the better option for their particular needs. I actually considered an Ursa Mini 4.6k thinking maybe it would be a good fit on certain projects but I got scared away by the quality control issues with Blackmagic's cameras. From the magenta issues to bad ports, I just didn't feel comfortable with it. I do own a Pocket and that is a great bang for the buck even with its issues. I'll never sell the R1 because despite it being a tool, it also symbolizes a turning point in my career, so someday it will just go on the shelf not sold for low money or dumped in a landfill.I'm a bit surprised with the way technology has forged ahead that I can still get a lot of use out of it in 2017. Kudos to RED for building it like a tank and putting pretty good sensors in it that would hold up over a decade. Not a bad rookie accomplishment.

I have to agree that its not about dishing one product compared to another. First, they are all simple tools, like hammers with a different weight, and the R1 (love it and keeping mine) ushered us into the mainstream digital motion picture age, but it should be obvious that RED and BMC are fighting over market shares in the independent film maker market (student or otherwise). As much I do love RED, in spite of my criticism of their utterly useless accessories, they do produce astounding cameras, but on the other hand the 4.6K Mini Ursa is no slough and the full version of Resolve will be able to access many lens issues like chromatic aberration and distortions. Yes, I know I am on reduser, but if we were to discuss the merits of both cameras, than I would have to point to the BMC 4.6K simply because RED has never implemented to service their past products, other than sending You to a costly upgrade path. If Your R1 dies, chuck it, if the BMC 4.6K dies, try to get a new one, if not: chuck it. Lately it feels that the myriad of RED Cameras are in a complete marketing shroud and with high price policies the cameras should remain accessible in rental houses only. I am not sure why somebody would upgrade a chip when You get a whole new camera with a whole new set of qualities for the same price.
Returning to the question of the thread, owning both cameras, I would have to say after 3 month of ownership, that I would recommend the BMC, mainly because the media is cheaper and available, its lighter and can do 60 Fps as well as Prores and the accessories all work as intended, especially the viewfinder and shoulder pad. On a rather academic note, the grain of the R1 has no color components like the Epix-X and is cleaner at the same compression, most likely hardware dependent, but the BMC does everything right from the viewfinder, the orientation of the LCD, the Dual C-fast cards, the shoulder mount, the running switch and handle, the power plate and plug in cable, and the menu . It has moraine and rolling shutter issues, if it didn't, at this price point, there would be no justice.

 

[Erick von Schulz]

ill throw my 2 cents in.. I shoot with both.. However I always end up going back to Red for the workflow. I love Red Cine-X and the Red workflow. Also Red One MX footage can play on my laptop and Blackmagic raw can not.. There is a place for both of course. it all depends on your needs. If you can live with the slow boot times and weight the Red One MX is excellent and still yields incredible results..

Now the pros of the BM 4.6k.. I do like shooting the Pro res format in camera and am able to use it quickly and great for run and gun.. I have tried to give up my old Red a few times. But have been unable to. It has paid for itself so many times over it is crazy..

If you have under a 5k budget I would go with he BM 4.6k for a few reasons.. The Red boots slow. is not covered under warranty like a New BM 4.6k would be and is cheaper to have a complete kit ready to shoot. without the need for a lot more accessories.
I think you will be happy with either but it is 10 year newer technology and will probably give you longer use then the Red.. The Red workflow is incredible. And if you want to get into it today. I would recommend a Red Raven or a good used Epic.. if You can afford it. But back to my $5k budget.. Get the BM. Then make some money and buy a Red Raven or better.