RED ONE MX and SONY F35

[Jannard]

After many complains that RED R1 is not 4K camera, finally I see Jim got a good way of expressing the precise resolution.

In old days we used to refer to Bayer only when expressing the resolution, now days we have to be more precise.

R1 is 4K Bayer, 3.2K measured, 3.2K delivered

Also I will add “delivered” parameter to be more precise when comparing to projected film resolution.

For film I would say 3K measured, 2K delivered.

Film has 6K particles in horizontal line of good 35mm film, but since it is not a Bayer pattern but rather random one and it refers to all the colors I skipped the first parameter for the film since we will be comparing apples with oranges here.

You can read more about it here:
http://pic.templetons.com/brad/photo/pixels.html

Andrew

You need to change one thing. Film is 3K measured from a 4K scan... not a 2K scan or 2K output. You can't get over 2K measured from a 2K output. Most 1080P output cameras measure a little to a lot less measured resolution than 1080P. For example, a 5D 1080P output actually measures 1.4K (generous number).

It is the primary reason we are championing 4K delivery.

Jim

 

[shashbugu]

This is certainly not a fair test at all. Michael Cioni confesses to not being a DP and he put together the Red reel. All things considered i believe a good test would be to send both cameras to my house (along with 250k my fee,) I will test them in the real world, and post the footage. I would also like to keep the MX and send back the F35. totally unbiased

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

There are pictures on the internet if you care to see :-0

http://www.arridigital.com/teaser/sensitivity

Looks nice and hard to judge from a single shot but from that shot the Alexa looks more like Mysterium's patterned noise. Hopefully it's just the one shot. One of the really nice things about the MX's image is how fine-grained its noise appears to be.

 

[Andrew M.]

Film is 3K measured from a 4K scan... not a 2K scan or 2K output.
It is the primary reason we are championing 4K delivery.

Jim

Agreed 100%.

Even if we scan film at 6K or 12K I don’t think we will get more than 3.5K measured from good stock film, also 2K delivered after master and distribution copy is made.

“delivered” I mean on the projection screen in the cinema.

Digital delivery (distribution) to the digital cinema is lossless as oppose to the delivery on the film media.


Andrew

 

[Jannard]

Looks nice and hard to judge from a single shot but from that shot the Alexa looks more like Mysterium's patterned noise. Hopefully it's just the one shot. One of the really nice things about the MX's image is how fine-grained its noise appears to be.

I think we all hope, and expect, the new Arri sensor to look like M-X, including the noise characteristics. Who knows, maybe even better? The entire industry needs to move the ball along. Not just one company. We like Arri and hope they do well.

We aren't threatened at all with Arri's new program. We have enough advantages that we think we'll be fine. On the other hand... if their new cameras look good intercutting with RED, DPs that want an optical finder can rent the new Arri and we won't have to build one!

Best news is that the industry has a couple of really good choices for lightweight, high quality image, full frame capture devices that represent the next generation of digital technology. Whew... that was a mouthful.

Jim

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Why would that be? Both sensors seem to be around 800 ASA as a base. I don't see any evidence yet for such a claim. For now, I would guess they are similar but we'll see whether Alexa has more dynamic range or not, or whether uncompressed RAW will lead to any advantage or not. We don't know yet.

I would think the question is whether the difference will be worth the added weight of post in relation to the budget of the shoot. Which I would assume will overwhelmingly benefit RedCode. Then there is form factor. With modularity and SLR size at one extreme, this will certainly, overwhelmingly, benefit RED, hands down, baring (the most unlikely) module docking system design problems. Finally, you have price to features. Unless the sensors are in fact a little better than M-X, a possibility Jim so benevolently reminds us of. But even then, how much better in terms of what you need and what you can afford?

All of this leads to believe "Red Two's" will sell in the low tenths of thousands. But possibly not so low considering Fixed Scarlet!

I am of course on of those that believes in RED, a lot. I consider rock-solid reliability and start up time to be already here, just not in my hands yet.

http://www.arridigital.com/teaser/sensitivity

But such a cool and very dark comparison is far more tilted than a well exposed 5000k chart, right?

 

[Curran Giddens]

Best news is that the industry has a couple of really good choices for lightweight, high quality image, full frame capture devices that represent the next generation of digital technology. Whew... that was a mouthful.

Jim

This is such an exciting time to be involved in this industry. Keep up the good work!

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

It'll be interesting to see what Arri's Jp2k options are as well. It might not be between REDCode and uncompressed RAW. If Arri can handle uncompressed they should also be able to handle a Jp2k compression level lower than RED's. There could be a good middle ground offered as well with 4:1 compression only slightly lossy beyond a mathematically lossless level. Then again Epic is also offering much higher data rates as well. I don't know if those are only available to the high-speed. But hopefully we'll be able to employ the REDCode100+ in 24p green screen work for instance. Also M-X improves the blue channel so much that there just might not be the will to put up with more data unlike the original RED which at release was way over compressed to the point of being almost as 'bad' as a 1080p SR source for some applications. Almost Jim... almost