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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED ONE MX and SONY F35

So if you want the pasty washed out look, just use REDLog....

Graeme
 
Michael Bravin said:
Tom

Only meaning to be a little provocative (I no longer have a dog in this particular fight), what do you mean by "takes a beating"? While the test does show a great improvement over the Mysterium vs F35 results I have seen, in similar tests, its hardly dramatic differences...that I can see at least. Also I am curious as to how they dealt with the color temperature, since the F35 is a natively tungsten balanced camera, and if this would have changed the result (obviously not resolution).
Click to expand...


Michael,

as you just have got new job and than you going to find yourself in pretty big troubles to compare Alexa Alev III with new M-X capabilities.

BTW, F35 is already loser...

...it's a fat, heavy, low resolution camera... such an obsolete thing...

It reminds me a bit on the old story about HOT POTATOES...
 
Come on Sanjin, let's have constructive discussions!

Graeme
 
dont get me wrong.. this is excellent! I always favored f35 footage over red, I still favor 35mm over red.. but the new sensor brings the camera right on par with f35..
I see some comments like.. RED destroyed the F35..
While I admit I can only see the first page with stills that are not labled RED or F35 (just 1080 and 4k, which confused me.. is one uprezed? is one down rezed?)
From what I see.. I see almost similar images (although the one I think is RED footage seems slightly more muted in color.. but that is just because it is unprocessed)

I dont see how one camera dominated the test over the other.
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
dont get me wrong.. this is excellent! I always favored f35 footage over red, I still favor 35mm over red.. but the new sensor brings the camera right on par with f35..
I see some comments like.. RED destroyed the F35..
While I admit I can only see the first page with stills that are not labled RED or F35 (just 1080 and 4k, which confused me.. is one uprezed? is one down rezed?)
From what I see.. I see almost similar images (although the one I think is RED footage seems slightly more muted in color.. but that is just because it is unprocessed)

I dont see how one camera dominated the test over the other.
Click to expand...


Zakaree,

if you were commented on my crop picture at the beginning of the tread there are two "Image Size" pictures that can confirm that both images are at 4K.

About a color look or feel I would not like to comment right now because that will be exactly the next critical step that

RED competitors would like (but they couldn't) claim their "advantages" towards R1 MX and NCS (FLUT™, etc,...).

We gonna read something like this: "...it's not about resolution it's more about skin tones...etc... sort of BS that we already heard from some of the evaluation tests before (BSC,...)...

Also I would not like to go again at the fair like IBC was last year and listen about a "gorgeous" color solutions, achievements and opportunities of software from the RED competition again.

That sort of world for me is sometimes boring to observe...
 
Michael Bravin said:
Tom

Only meaning to be a little provocative (I no longer have a dog in this particular fight), what do you mean by "takes a beating"? While the test does show a great improvement over the Mysterium vs F35 results I have seen, in similar tests, its hardly dramatic differences...that I can see at least. Also I am curious as to how they dealt with the color temperature, since the F35 is a natively tungsten balanced camera, and if this would have changed the result (obviously not resolution).
Click to expand...

Assuming that I am reading these tests correctly (?), switching view from layer to layer, this test at ISO 1250/1280, for example, is very telling:

1y00gy.jpg
 
Tom, I think you're reading them just right...

Graeme
 
Great information Michael, as always.
Did you find the light meter (i.e. sekonic) match the ISO that you set in camera?
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
dont get me wrong.. this is excellent! I always favored f35 footage over red, I still favor 35mm over red.. but the new sensor brings the camera right on par with f35..
I see some comments like.. RED destroyed the F35..
While I admit I can only see the first page with stills that are not labled RED or F35 (just 1080 and 4k, which confused me.. is one uprezed? is one down rezed?)
From what I see.. I see almost similar images (although the one I think is RED footage seems slightly more muted in color.. but that is just because it is unprocessed)

I dont see how one camera dominated the test over the other.
Click to expand...

Zak... if you can't figure out how to read the results, I can certainly understand why you can't see the winner/difference. :-)

I'm not sure that "brings the camera right up on par with F35" is exactly the way I would describe it.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
I'm not sure that "brings the camera right up on par with F35" is exactly the way I would describe it.

Jim
Click to expand...

Well if by "brings the camera right up on par with F35" he actually meant "takes F35 out back to the woodshed"... then his statement is correct. If I was a Sony exec I would be ordering our lawyers to seek an injunction to shut this thread down. :laugh:

Huge congratulations to everyone at Red for this somewhat stunning turn of events with MX.
 
Michael Bravin said:
...While the test does show a great improvement over the Mysterium vs F35 results I have seen, in similar tests, its hardly dramatic differences...that I can see at least...
Click to expand...

hahahaha....What are you talking about, Michael? LOL

I understand you are wearing ARRI t-shirt now, but, c'mon, it's like saying : I can't tell the difference between night and day, whisky and yogurt, potatos and bannanas. Surely we don't need to ensure your monitor is on, photoshop installed, spectacles put on your nose, ... LOL

You could have said...but Alexa has nicer knobs and buttons....

and I would wholeheartedly agree with you for a change. :beer:

We all have faith in you, Michael, and look forward to see some mind blowing images coming from Alexa and Relativity shortly, right? The bar was set. The challenge is on.
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
While I admit I can only see the first page with stills that are not labled RED or F35 (just 1080 and 4k, which confused me.. is one uprezed? is one down rezed?)
From what I see.. I see almost similar images (although the one I think is RED footage seems slightly more muted in color.. but that is just because it is unprocessed)

I dont see how one camera dominated the test over the other.
Click to expand...
Hey Zakaree,

The 1080 files have both the Red 4096x2304 file scaled down and the F35 1920x1080 frame on separate Photoshop layers. You just open the file in Photoshop and toggle the top layer on and off.

The 4K files have the Red 4K file and the scaled up F35 file on separate layers. The muted color frames are the F35 in S-LOG, the more natural frames are the Red MX in Redcolor/Red gamma.

I gotta say, it looks like Red MX kicks the F35's ass. I can't imagine any clients or DP's preferring to shoot on the F35 after seeing this unless they specifically want an HDCAM-SR workflow. Now if we could just view on set in Redcolor/Redgamma and get a polished Redcine-X out of beta, then we'll have a complete system. I know, I know - "it's coming." ;)
 
Tom Lowe said:
Assuming that I am reading these tests correctly (?), switching view from layer to layer, this test at ISO 1250/1280, for example, is very telling:

1y00gy.jpg
Click to expand...

Wow Tom.

That is quite a side by side comparison. To me, and my untrained eye, the truth is found in the grey scale and cavity black.

Perhaps someone should send this test to Dan Mulligan and ask him if he still feels confident in his $200,000+ camera and his 14 stops.

http://www.definitionmagazine.com/cameras/mulligan.htm
 
What is rapidly becoming apparent, even with early generation firmware, is the MX is raising the bar. I just got back from shooting a real world torture test under low CRI, cheap ballast flouros and discovered two things:

1) Even under crap lighting the skin tones are amazingly good

2) There is both detail and chroma in the shadows instead of noise

I'm blown away.

Cheers - #19
 
Pawel Achtel said:
hahahaha....What are you talking about, Michael? LOL

I understand you are wearing ARRI t-shirt now, but, c'mon, it's like saying : I can't tell the difference between night and day, whisky and yogurt, potatos and bannanas. Surely we don't need to ensure your monitor is on, photoshop installed, spectacles put on your nose, ... LOL

You could have said...but Alexa has nicer knobs and buttons....

and I would wholeheartedly agree with you for a change. :beer:

We all have faith in you, Michael, and look forward to see some mind blowing images coming from Alexa and Relativity shortly, right? The bar was set. The challenge is on.
Click to expand...

Pawel

Don't be silly of course their is a difference, I simple said I didn't see a dramatic difference.

This was a test between the F35 and a RED One with MX sensor, no?

And come on, really, what does my shirt have to do with this? I think I am known to have an independent thinking brain, and since when is ALEXA part of this discussion?, ALEXA is for later, trust me.

For now I am interested and concentrating on the test of the Red One with MX against a camera that I know VERY VERY well, the F35. Since I know what the F35 can do, for me it is especially instructive to see shots comparing to it.

The stills of the MX sensor look very good. No doubt it is an improvement over the older Mysterium Reds. But, the sensor is just part of a camera system and post workflow. In real life, outside this echo chamber, Red One with MX still must prove herself, to stand up to the complete workflow of high end Motion Picture, Television and Commercial Production.

For right now F35, Genesis and D21 rule there, not my rules, but we all play by them. Nothing at all wrong with a meritocracy, in my view.
 
Michael Bravin said:
the sensor is just part of a camera system and post workflow. In real life, outside this echo chamber, Red One with MX still must prove herself, to stand up to the complete workflow of high end Motion Picture, Television and Commercial Production.
Click to expand...
I'm a know-nothing newbie but it seems to me that the folks at RED agree with you, judging by the number of new Redcine-X builds they've been releasing lately.
 
Michael Bravin said:
Don't be silly of course their is a difference, I simple said I didn't see a dramatic difference.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I honestly think it is a game changer. The attached is a 200% enlarged split crop. Have a look at the noise in the shadows. C'mon, if that's not dramatic difference, I don't know what else is.

My remark about Alexa was that now there are extremely high expectations from the competitors (Alexa) judging from the comparison between F35 and MX. Those are two cameras, which are available now. Alexa is not. It would be good to put D21 in the line....

We are teasing you for the good. You just may have more homework to do than you make of it. Not that there is anything fundamentally wrong with that :)

I am huge Arri supporter. I spent many times over more money with Arri than with RED and think of Arri quality and (Australian) customer support as second to none.
 

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