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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red One dilemma...

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A good deal is when both parties are happy... why not wait for our announcement and then voice your opinion? :-)

Jim
 
In the meantime... there is NO downside to owning a RED ONE.

Jim
 
Hi guys, Hi Jim,

unfortunately my post was interpreted (mostly) in the wrong way. Please allow me to clarify...:

A) The point I was trying to make and discuss is that "I" personally believe that it is the "Red One dilemma" that has been giving some headache to Jim. Maybe I am completely wrong, but this is what I believe. Why? Because Jim is such a nice guy. He is genuinely worried about his loyal followers and he cherishes them all the time. This is why he has offered the 100% trade-in for Epic. No one has ever done that before and it is a very generous offer which Jim was not obliged to make... And yet he did... Few days ago they had a major break-through in their vision and strategy. This must have been something huge, since they are completely revamping both Epic and Scarlet. How huge? Definitely huge enough for it to affect the current Red One. While the 100% trade-in does address those who will go for Epic, it does not address those who don't want it, or can't afford it... And this is the dilemma I am talking about. I think Jim wants to be fair and reward his most loyal followers, but at the same time he can't hold back the natural progression of his vision...

B) What I have proposed with the Red One mark II was simply an opinion. Many people are quick to pint out a problems and play a blame game. If I see a problem I always like to present it with a possible solution. I know that such a solution makes no financial sense to RED, but so does the 100% trade-in for EPIC - unless they floated up the price of EPIC to absorb the "upgrade" cost - which I simply refuse to believe - call me blind or what ever... In that light the Red One mark II makes as much sense as the trade-in for EPIC - and it does address those Red One owners who have no intention to upgrade to EPIC for what ever reason...

C) Unlike those of You who have had their Red Ones for a while and were able to "cash-in" on the initial rental hype, we (who are about to get theirs) are in a very different situation. Not only the market is getting slowly saturated, but the EPIC & Scarlet bombs are about to fall... I have been personally renting the Red Ones for some time now and I will be getting mine next month no matter what happens with EPIC or Scarlet. I am one of those "lucky" ones who actually treat Red One as "deposit" for EPIC and as such whatever happens it won't affect me at all... But I do have a few close friends who are genuinely concerned about the latest developments...

I have personally no intention to keep the Red One. It is a brilliant piece of engineering and I have been having a lots of fun with it and will continue to do so until EPIC & Scarlet is out. But there is one single issue that I have with Red One. The resolution, image quality, RAW compression, DR & SNR and many other things are top notch and already almost overkill for me. The only remaining negative factor for me is the limited higher frame rates. You need to drop down the resolution to 3K for 60FPS and 2K for 120FPS. Now it is not the resolution that worries me - is that You loose the wide angles due to the sensor crop, unless You get additional 2/3" glass to take care of that... EPIC (and Scarlet) will not only address that, but will also offer a more compact size and lighter body - which is a concern for the type of projects I will be mostly doing (NatGeo & Discovery type of docos in many remote locations).


Now look at it from the point of view of all those who "snapped" at my post:

According to You I could have just said:

"Jim, the time has come to damp Red One in its current shape and form and bring on Red Two, EPIC, Scarlet and DSMC. Unfortunately compared to these four (or three?/two?) products the RED One is obsolete... State-of-the-art, but obsolete. Screw any trade-in or other similar program and do what everyone else does - offer a new product and charge for it! In any case, unlike most of Your competitors, You are actually offering a brand new generation of products, not a minor upgrade. Those who just bought Red One are simply out of luck. Just like when You buy a new Macbook Pro and Apple releases new model the next week. Red One will continue to serve for some time and will allow many to continue to produce beautiful content - no doubt... But let's move on with the program..."

Can You imagine the response such a post would get?!?

So please - re-read my first post and re-read this clarification. If You understand my point for this thread - the "Red One dilemma" - and You also believe this to be the case here - please do not hesitate to suggest a solution and/or an opinion about how such a dilemma should be dealt with from YOUR point of view. I am sure Jim would love to hear how we feel about this...

But if You don't have anything to contribute - please do not attack me...

With all due respect and Kindest Regards,

Peter
 
Peter... I'm not attacking you at all. And you are not alone having concern about the future of the RED ONE and it's owners. Technology is moving forward at a high rate of speed. We need to advance. In a world where customers are left in the cold by this ongoing fact, we consider this heavily in our decision making. We never promised that the RED ONE would always be the best we can do. We promised that our customers would not be left behind. A sensor upgrade insures that. If you get the chance to put a new motor in your old car for a reasonable price... it keeps you more current than not. But we never promised to give you a new car everytime one comes out. Your old car will perform just as well as the new one. It just will not be as shiny.

EPIC has more features than a RED ONE. So it will cost more. If you want those features, we have given an unprecidented roadmap to have it at the least possible expense. We didn't say we will give you 50% credit on a trade-in. 100%. I'm just not sure we can do more than that. We certainly cannot give you a new camera for free everytime we release a new model. There would be no business left.

The RED ONE will be capable of shooting features for a long time. That is a promise that everyone knows is true.

Jim
 
You are an amazing entrepenuer Jim, inspiring, thank you.
Aloha
-A
 
When the Red One came out, it was the movie camera I was dreaming of...
And it still is today !

I will be happy to upgrade to Epic when it's time but I'm already more than happy to be able to get a Red One.

I find Nikon D90 and Canon EOS Mark II interesting products, but if RED didn't exist Idon't know if I would want one of those...
 
I have a Red One. I'm very happy.

Something tells me I'm going to be even happier one day.

Until I know why, I will put my trust in RED and wait.

All good, enough said. :)
 
Jannard said:
A good deal is when both parties are happy... why not wait for our announcement and then voice your opinion? :-)

Jim
Click to expand...

Hi Jim,
Im not happy at all ! I ordered a RED ONE right afther NAB show.
I ordered a RED ONE beacause you announced the SCARLET with a fixed lense. So I think I will be a bit upset if the SCARLET gets with changable lenses. I wrote yesterday to Mr. Montenegro to cancel my order............
 
Kreisky said:
Hi Jim,
Im not happy at all ! I ordered a RED ONE right afther NAB show.
I ordered a RED ONE beacause you announced the SCARLET with a fixed lense. So I think I will be a bit upset if the SCARLET gets with changable lenses. I wrote yesterday to Mr. Montenegro to cancel my order............
Click to expand...

Kreisky don't cancel your order yet.
If your Red number is before mine I'll have yours !
 
Rami said:
Kreisky don't cancel your order yet.
If your Red number is before mine I'll have yours !
Click to expand...

I want to make my life as easy as possible......
We are very close.....we will get it about the same time !

Bruno
 
Jim, You were not attacking at all, it was Don Julio with his rushed interpretation of my post. I guess I am done with that brand of tequila... :)

Nor I am expecting to get a free car from You every time You make one. I've based it solely on Your generous offer to full trade-in for EPIC - which I, personally, will definitely take advantage of...

RED has changed my life in a way You can't even imagine and I am placing all my bets on JJ's version of the future. You have shown more then You were ever asked for to make us believe that You won't left anyone behind...

We get practically new camera to work with every month for FREE with every new build update. Throw in all the FREE HW upgrades and You leave no space for complaining. All I can hope is that my posts are never interpreted as such. I am always trying to be constructive and add value to this community. Not the other way round...

Enough said...

Here is to You Jim and Your team...

cheers.jpg
 
Peter Majtan said:
OK Jim, please hear me out...
Click to expand...

Myopic post of the year.

Did these cameras that can generate pictures with better fidelity than just about any movie house can ever hope to project somehow just get dropped in to an ecology where their image has all of the sudden become inadequate? :huh:
 
scaesare said:
Myopic post of the year.

Did these cameras that can generate pictures with better fidelity than just about any movie house can ever hope to project somehow just get dropped in to an ecology where their image has all of the sudden become inadequate? :huh:
Click to expand...

Who have said anything like that besides You?
 
Another Idea,

I think whatever Reds Cameras are, I hope that due to changes in the market and sales of their own they should lower(or heaven forbid higher) their camera lines maybe every year. If in the market/Red people are going for DSLR HD Movie Mode Full Frame Still Interchangeable Lens Mount, then Red should have their cameras the same price as the market if not cheaper. So even if this DSLR has a bigger sensor(maybe Epic) it should be lower than a RedOne.
If the market ever makes a S35 sensor cameras cheaper then a RedOne, then the RedOnes should fallow or lead in that price drop!

Cameras shouldn't be fixed priced based on sensor size. Tech is changing and the market is also. :red_bandana:
 
"More! More! More!", like greedy pigs...

Honestly, the sheer gall of some people on this site. Peter, you should be ashamed of yourself.

There's a difference between pushing the envelope, and biting the hand that feeds.

Here's an idea, build your own camera from
the ground up, and then do all the things you've suggested yourself.
 
Logan, You have clearly not read the entire thread and the "accompanying" Don Julio's thread linked on the first page of this thread. You are way out of line and it is You who should be ashamed...

Same goes for Scaesare. It is easy to misunderstand written text - especially one written in English. Instead of attacking and insulting others You should ask for clarification and/or explain Your point of view. I guess this is too much for some. Also misinterpreting & twisting one's words and then presenting them as his/hers "original" statement is little childish. I am still waiting for You (Scaesare) to show me where I have said such a thing. The problem with such a posts is that others might not read the whole thread and only see Your last misleading statement and this create endless cycle of hatred and conflicts. Why people can't just get along? I don't get it...

Hopefully soon You will understand what I've meant...

Peter
 
Peter Majtan said:
Logan, You have clearly not read the entire thread and the "accompanying" Don Julio's thread linked on the first page of this thread. You are way out of line and it is You who should be ashamed...

Same goes for Scaesare. It is easy to misunderstand written text - especially one written in English. Instead of attacking and insulting others You should ask for clarification and/or explain Your point of view. I guess this is too much for some. Also misinterpreting & twisting one's words and then presenting them as his/hers "original" statement is little childish. I am still waiting for You (Scaesare) to show me where I have said such a thing. The problem with such a posts is that others might not read the whole thread and only see Your last misleading statement and this create endless cycle of hatred and conflicts. Why people can't just get along? I don't get it...

Hopefully soon You will understand what I've meant...

Peter
Click to expand...

The premise you based your post on is what I found short sighted.
 
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