Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED noob, don't shoot! Color trouble?

K

Kevin McDonald

Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
London
So I've been handed a short film shot on RED one, 4.5k, 2.35 to 1.

I made 1080p Pro Res quicktime files for the offline (using Pro res Proxy codec). Started cutting in FCP.

I've exported an xml from FCP and imported to clipfinder and 'run conform on FCP XML file, replacing clips with H proxy and generate the new xml.

Import new xml to FCP. Now the aspect ratio of my RED files in FCP is 2240x960 so I changed the sequence setting to match. I hit send to color and when it opens color says 'color cannot support media of this resolution'.

So I went back and tried changing the seq settings in FCP to those which color likes and scaling the RED files in the timeline to fit. But still I get 'color cannot support media of this resolution'.

What I am doing wrong? Is it the shooting format of the RED files? Any ideas how to solve this problem.

I did search the forum but couldn't find anything on this so apologies if it's been down a thousand times over.

I really appreciate any insight you guys may have!

Thanks

Kevin
 
IIRC Color doesn't support 4.5K. At all. I could be wrong. So the issue is likely not that your *timeline* is the wrong resolution, but rather that your source media (The R3D files) is the wrong resolution. EDIT: Turns out there is, in fact, limited 4.5K support. But it runs everything at 1/2 Rez, so you're still better off following below.

Ready for the solution? You're not gonna like it: Render. Use Clipfinder or one of the XML scripts to load your sequence into RedCine-X, render everything out in a Color-Friendly format/resolution. Grade those files.

Yeah, it kinda sucks. Only solution I'm aware of, though.

MORE EDIT: Stephen beat me to the punch. Bah.
 
Thanks very much for the quick replies guys.

I thought the solution might be something like that, oh well.

So can I just ask for my own education - will Color will always try to link up the highest res option available? There's no way to tell color or the r3d's that I only want to pull in 2k images? (I guess this is why I thought that changing the seq settings in fcp before going color might help.)

I only really need to go to 2k for the online, but a couple of clips that we've punch in on in the edit I would like to have at 4k so I don't start loosing definition when pushed in.
 
No, doesn't work that way. 4.5k is 4.5k and Color won't be able to see them regardless of settings.

Bring your EDL into REDcine X or Storm. You can do your punch-ins there and a one-light at the same time. Your resulting files will be an excellent starting point for Color.
 
Also, and sorry for changing the subject slightly, how R3D looked in redcine x and in the offline pro res files is consistent, but the R3D's when back in the FCP timeline were very saturated and green. Could this down to FCP not liking 4.5k either?

Looks like back to redcine-x I go anyway

Thanks
 
Not to differ with the pros here but if your final output is 2K you may be fine. I shot a short in 4.5K and graded it in color. Methodology as follows:

Edited M proxies in FCP
Sent timeline to Color
Graded original R3D files
Wrote files out from Color at 2240x960 Custom Prores 444
Reimported back into FCP into a 2240x960 timeline with 24 bit audio brought back in from separate Pro Tools session and mix down
Output from FCP into desired delivery format
(at this stage for me it's Blu-Ray and standard DVD resolutions by sending from FCP to Compressor for festival submissions)
This is working very well. When I need to output a file for digital theatrical projection later I'll do some research and post how that goes.

Hope this helps
 
Hi Richard, that's interesting. I'm not at my machine anymore, and this being my first red edit I don't know, but do you think it'd be possible to reconnect the pro res files used in my edit to the m-proxies, in order to give this a shot. It'd save a lot of time if it worked out.
 
Last edited:
hey man, jim is right (and mostly everyone else)...

i would do as much of your color correction/grading with the raw files (via EDL) in either storm (free beta, really cool, inexpensive - (http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/storm/) or redcine-x (http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=55283) and render out 16-bit tif, dpx, exr, whatever (.wtvr) then take that into color.

i don't use final cut, but that sounds like a reasonable thing to do. i'm sure somebody can share with you the intricacies of that if a google/reduser search doesn't help you out first.

typically it wouldn't be that hard to go over to color, it's just that silliness on color's end about max resolutions... has anyone tried patching the software for now? that will be pretty big for the epic footage, i know a lot of people like that software. and deciding on your captured resolution based on whether color can handle it seems like a really bad idea, but i know some would make it.

also, they should most certainly rename it 'colour'... oh, and update the software. yeah, that too. thanks apple, i know you are such a struggling company and could probably barely afford to put any time towards that but... okay i'm stopping.

good luck kevin! and welcome.
 
So wheather you transcode to ProRes4444 , ProRes LT , or use the M Proxy Files, when that sequence gets sent over to Color, it looks at the R3D 4k image?

If thats the case, then whats the point of people conforming? Why go from ProRes LT to 4444?
 
reduced filesize handling? 4444 is the best quality. i don't do that so i don't know.

but yes, you should be able to link it back up.

somebody that uses that software combination will have to describe how, or like a said, a google/reduser search should help. it helps on reduser, to change searching "threads" to "posts"... sometimes. or do an advanced google search only for reduser.net - that works best sometimes.
 
When you send proxy files of any resolution to Color, it links to the R3D files directly. The resolution of the proxies makes no difference. From there, it scales the R3Ds as needed based on the project settings within Color (inherited from your Final Cut project, but changeable and not dependent on which proxies you used,) but it doesn't always do the best job of scaling.

I worked with R3Ds in Color for one project, and it generally went okay, but doing any tracking on an R3D file takes a LOT longer than tracking on a ProRes file, (maybe 6-8x longer, enough to make it utterly unusable) even if you have a RED ROCKET card and all the latest software for that.

Also, Color doesn't have REDcolor2, REDgamma2, or REDlogfilm, just the earlier versions. I quite like the new color science, so I prefer to do a one-light correction in REDCINE-X, export ProRes 4444, and then send those to Color for tweaking and secondaries.
 
Interesting. Does this only include the Proxy's made by the RED Camera? As in the M or H file? Or does this also include the ProRes422 Proxy?

Then why do people edit with the Camera Proxy files, like the M proxy file, do they use Clipfinder to link it up to the F proxy if when they send it to Color, it already reads the 4k RED data.

Im not a colorist myself, I just want to make sure that when i hand over a project, the colorist has all the options available to him/her. So i thought that conforming back to a Native RED quicktime file so they have access to all of the RED metadata.

You finish and create Digital Cinema files in Color dont you? Or am i confusing something else with the term 'finishing'?
 
Art_Jaguar said:
Interesting. Does this only include the Proxy's made by the RED Camera? As in the M or H file? Or does this also include the ProRes422 Proxy?
Click to expand...

Just the Camera Proxies (_M, _H, etc). Also the native-wrapped R3D quicktimes. *NOT* any sort of ProRes.

Then why do people edit with the Camera Proxy files, like the M proxy file, do they use Clipfinder to link it up to the F proxy if when they send it to Color, it already reads the 4k RED data.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for 'most people', but I *don't* edit the camera proxies. It's processor intensive, requires a lot of disk throughput and space, and is has a higher risk of "What the hell just happened" errors.

As far as reconnecting to F proxies, I do it to avoid scaling issues in *FCP*. Color automatically connects to full-res files, but you can save yourself a lot of hassle by dealing with geometry and scaling issues in advance.

Im not a colorist myself, I just want to make sure that when i hand over a project, the colorist has all the options available to him/her. So i thought that conforming back to a Native RED quicktime file so they have access to all of the RED metadata.
Click to expand...

Personally, as a Colorist, I prefer to get the files straight off the camera, rather than wrapped QTs. I occasionally have access to a Baselight and/or Resolve, and they won't deal with QTs. So it's easier for me to say "Send me a drive with the raw footage on it" and throw it into whatever I'm using to grade. Your Colorist's preferences may vary, but you can rarely go wrong by sending the camera footage.

You finish and create Digital Cinema files in Color dont you? Or am i confusing something else with the term 'finishing'?
Click to expand...

Ooh boy.

Short answer: No.

Long Answer: Depends on what you mean by "Digital Cinema". Capitalized like that, I kinda assume you're talking about DCP (Digital Cinema... Package? I think) files, which are what you hand a theatre for digital projection. And no, Color doesn't make those. They require a pretty specialized set of software.

Color *can* render out DPX files, which are one of the standards for doing a film print.

"Finishing" usually refers to the act of bringing all the elements of the film together. (As opposed to "Mastering", which is probably what you're thinking of with DCP files and such) Edited footage, Sound, Music, VFX, etc. Color is not, in and of itself, a finishing program. It's purely for Color Grading, the renders from which you would then pass to a finishing program. FCP can *do* a finish, though I wouldn't go so far as to call it a dedicated finishing app. Smoke is probably one of the better known examples, as is Avid's DS.
 
Hi, thanks to everyone who posted in the thread, really interesting and useful stuff.

I'm wondering if anyone would be so kind as to outline their preferred settings in Clipfinder when exporting for a 1080 HD online.

I'm asking because I'm not sure if I should change the Color Space and Gamma Space setting to Rec709 instead of referencing the look source which I have set to camera.

Again, any help greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Kevin
 
No, you really don't want to use Rec709, you want REDcolor2 and REDgamma2.
What are you trying to achieve with Clipfinder? If you want to edit with ProRes proxies then grade with R3Ds, it's very handy for that. If you want to render out full-quality ProRes files for an online, you probably want to use REDCINE-X.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top