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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red needs a "Post" guy

Mike Prevette

Mike Prevette

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Red really needs a person in charge of organizing and delivering information about proper Red Post. Someone who is a clear and present point of contact for people with post questions. A geekier Ted if you will.

So many people just can't wrap there head around how to do it right. So many people are very misinformed about it. Even worse so many people think they can do it all, just because they can do it all ;)

Art Adams recent post at PVC proves this need:
http://provideocoalition.com/index....ompleat_idiots_guide_to_red_post_on_a_budget/


Art seems to be a good intentioned, smart guy, but woefully out of his league in the post world. The problem is he is very vocal on CML, and his site is heavily trafficked by people who will form opinions based on his experiences VS trying it themselves.

If Red had someone leading the charge in the post workflow side of things a lot of this stuff could get cleared up before people get to afraid of posting Red stuff. Producers make decisions based on a lot more than image quality, and ease of post is always a top point. Any experienced producer knows post has more pitfalls and money traps than production does.

Reduser is not enough for the outside world. There needs to be some clearly published "apple" style white papers on workflow options.

My 2c
 
Absolutely agree. I go through the various threads on 4k workflow and there still seems to be a tremendous amount of confusion. What a detriment that can be to a camera that has the potential for such wonderful images. Bring on the post guy!
 
wow that's great news! Now that we've established he exists let's get him out there. He really needs to be highprofile and approachable. It seems like the majority of the confusion is coming from people who aren't willing to do their own research much less any testing. I wish I could say sink or swim, but that isn't the best customer service in this modern age.
 
I think some people are genuinely confused and some people are doing the FUD thing. its so much simpler than most people are making it out to be. a hell of a lot simpler than juggling with HD CAM , HD CAMSR and all the stuff when that first came out. it took at least 2 years for people to get a handle on that workflow and nothing was seamless out of the gate. hardly anything supported 1080p , not even the mighty avid. I think RED is getting a bum wrap. they need a video tutorials section on this site and on the main site. I know ted did something like that. but it needs to be more comprehensive. whether red needs to hire someone to do it or designate. they need to stop the FUD spreading in places like CML
 
Mike,

I recognize your heart is in the right place... you just want more support to make the camera more successful! Nothin' wrong with that!

But I gotta represent my peeps here. : )

Most of the time when I see Kevin, he is in a cold sweat because he is busy on fairly critical calls with between 10 and 100 customers, juggling and working his butt off trying to get everything solved.

I know that if he had the time, he would be here more often, but he is pretty much always up to his ass in alligators.

Also, reality check.

Apple = 5000+ employees
RED = much, much less than that. : )

Cheers,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
Please do not try to do it yourself without experience.

I mean deep up to your neck in the trenches experiences.

You do not read white paper and fly an air plane right?

It doesn't matter if you post a DV, FILM, RED, HD, or broadcast project.

Beg, cry, and pay for a PRO.

Unless you can do brain surgery on yourself from reading a white paper.

Get some real help.

Tek

P. S. People who do not respect other people's skill and talents, do not respect them self or the people they work with. I hope you will not have to work with them. "experience is intellectual property, make sure it's a fair trade"
 
Your totally right Lucas. I suppose the issue lies in peoples perception of what Red is and where they have placed themselves in the market. The reality is a RAW based workflow is perceptually very different than what people are used to (of course the opposite is true in fact its almost identical to film) . If they want to be viable as a RAW camera system, the RAW post system is equally important.

I have no problem working with Red footage and delivering it to just about anything. However most people aren't finding it that self explanatory or get hung up on what's different and not what's the same.
 
its not brain surgery and nobody dies if you screw up. unless its of embarassment. while getting a pro is the ideal situation. there is nothing wrong with learning it yourself. having to learn the RED way of doing post is not a negative thing as long as you're not doing it on a deadline.

it is one of the things i like about red is it liberates indies from labs, post houses , most people just can't afford those kind of rates. thats not to denigrate the amazing job some people do. if I'm going to save money on processing and tape transfers, etc I'm not going to replace it with more of the expensive time I couldn't afford when I had to spend it on the things previously mentioned.
 
Just wanted to make things clear. I personally am having no problem dealing with Red footage and cutting it or handing it off to just about everything. I just wanted to bridge the subject of all the misinformation and confusion out there.

Seems like every week I field calls about how someone can get red footage into their nephews cousins linux based, home java coded, Sun workstation edit system. And I wish I could point them to someone else.
 
Going back to the original post and sentiment of this thread, I think this is what RED was trying to accomplish with the "mythbusters" video. The one with RedTed and Michael Cioni of Plaster City. I think (hope) there will be more to come as a follow-up to that video.

I have a hunch that some of the landscape is going to change with the release of Build 16 and we'll see a faster rate of development toward solid workflows at all levels of production. Should have PC workflow announcements next month, etc..
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Going back to the original post and sentiment of this thread, I think this is what RED was trying to accomplish with the "mythbusters" video. The one with RedTed and Michael Cioni of Plaster City. I think (hope) there will be more to come as a follow-up to that video.

I have a hunch that some of the landscape is going to change with the release of Build 16 and we'll see a faster rate of development toward solid workflows at all levels of production. Should have PC workflow announcements next month, etc..
Click to expand...

No doubt, the "mythbusters" vid is a step in the right direction. I think if anything, what would certainly help integrate RED into the industry (definitely in television) would be a series of video tutorials that illustrate and clarify using RED files in a variety of post platforms, particularly those in place right now. Create a post workflow that is easier, less time-consuming, and less costly than film. After all, these are some of the reasons digital would be chosen in the first place, and this is probably the most intimidating element to producers.

I think it's all falling into place and Jeff I think you are spot on. All said, it truly is amazing what RED has done with such a young company.
 
Mike Prevette said:
Art seems to be a good intentioned, smart guy, but woefully out of his league in the post world.
Click to expand...

This is true. But there are many people who bought REDs who are in the same boat. Nobody is giving me much information about how to make this stuff work, so hell--I just went out, figured out a way, and posted it. Now I've started a dialogue, and hopefully others will jump in and correct the horrific errors in my post process.

I don't think it's a problem that I'm not that great at post, nor that I'm vocal about it on CML. I think it's a problem that RED has not published any widely available and officially sanctioned documentation on what the hell we're supposed to do with their footage after we've shot it. Everything about this camera is a mystery until someone flails about for a while, makes a few mistakes, and then publishes what seems to work.

Having a guy in-house at RED that we can call with our post questions doesn't help (1) if this is the first I've heard that the guy even exists, and (2) if he isn't available at a moment's notice to handhold my next RED client through post.

The revolution must be documented, and it must be led. Right now I don't see RED doing either, so don't get annoyed if a bunch of other leaders and documentation show up to fill the vacuum.
 
Post

Post

I think its great that Art has published his findings.

And yes we at RED need to do more to publish recommended practices too. One issue is that there are a lot more options to explore with a RED-ONE, but no excuses.

All feedback is welcomed.
 
Wow, Art posted on RedUser - I thought you were trying to get banned :shifty:

Seriously, good points both in Art's article (and the follow-up published chat with Adam) and in this thread. It is a bit of a case of "camera arrives, errr... now try out some post options and try to find out what works."

Although there's some good help on these boards, it can be hard to find under all the other discussions. I still don't know what the best set-up for RedCine on a Mac Pro is and I've had my camera 3 months! The "Mythbusters" video was useful in showing that the mooted "proxies workflow" worked, unfortunately in reality it's not nearly so smooth as the video seemed to suggest!

Anyway, I have a feeling that a lot of things are likely to be sorted out before long.
 
artadams said:
Having a guy in-house at RED that we can call with our post questions doesn't help (1) if this is the first I've heard that the guy even exists, and (2) if he isn't available at a moment's notice to handhold my next RED client through post.

The revolution must be documented, and it must be led. Right now I don't see RED doing either, so don't get annoyed if a bunch of other leaders and documentation show up to fill the vacuum.
Click to expand...

Let's clear up a little of the confusion here.

As is stated in this thread, yes, RED has a guy dedicated to post - Kevin Stanley.

Two, check my thread from January announcing Kevin: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8070&highlight=Kevin+Stanley .

So, people have known he exists for over three months. In fact, as Lucas says, people have had him tangled up on the phone, on the boards, and on email. His could not talk for two days after doing workflow (alongside the guys from PlasterCity) at NAB for four straight days.

To speak of "available at a moment's notice to handhold", I would say that RED has a resource available for people, yes. One personally dedicated to you at a moment's notice, no.

People have asked for white papers on post. Simple reason we don't have them - by the time Kevin finished writing them, things would have changed so much, he would be editing what he just finished. So, either he spends all his time helping customers - or in an endless loop of documentation. Add to the fact that our software (eg, REDCINE, RED Alert, etc) is BETA software and from Day One we have stated it was community-supported, and you can see why formal, extensive documentation is
not the right choice at this time. Not to say that it won't be the right choice down the line....

BC
 
Greetings Red Users,

I would like to introduce myself again here on RedUser, my name is Kevin Stanley and I am the Flowmaster here at Red. I am here to assist you with RED workflow and can be reached by PM here or by emailing kevins@red. I try to visit and help out on the boards as much as possible, if you post something and don't receive a timely response please pm or email me and I will get back to you as soon as I can. The flexibility of our workflow can present a challenge in choosing the right path for your first projects, I would venture to say it is also what sets us apart and makes the post aspect of this camera so amazing. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you need some guidance or questions answered.

Sincerely,

Kevin Stanley
Flowmaster
 
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