RED Media prices

[Nelson Alexandre]

Can someone take the time to help me understand how much I probably have to spend on media alone to record some 3K footage on a Scarlet 2/3 for some hours?

I put this question at this time because I'm evaluating the Fixed cam but, for what I've been reading, it seems that I will need some serious money to spend on media alone just to record a few minutes of 3K RAW footage!

Besides all the other advantages that the fixed Scarlet show against other newcomers (like AF100), it seems that it's major advantage (3K RAW recording), will be of no use if I have to shoot continuously for a whole day (like in a direct cinema style DOC), and I have to pay 10k for media alone to do that!

I will be very appreciated if you all experts share some of your thoughts about this with me.

Thanks

 

[Michael Olsen]

Here's what we have from RED.

These are Custom RED SSDs. Off-the-Shelf SSD's do not have a high enough wear rate on their connectors.

You will need the RED STATION to read them, and like Deanan mentioned, they are wicked fast.. as our Media always is

64GB SSD $950.
128GB SSD $1800
256GB SSD $3200

R1 SSD Camera Module $1500
EPIC SSD Camera Module $2500

3.5+ hours of 3k.

With rollover from one SSD to another, double that.

So, if you need a minimum of 10 hours recording ability (i.e. no offloading) that would be 3 256GB SSDs.

$3200.00 x 3 = $9600.00
3.5 x 3 = 10.5 hours

That is, of course, assuming a fairly high data rate. If you don't need the mbs and are comfortable shooting with less, then you may be able to fit it all onto 2 drives instead of 3.

 

[Blake K]

And as far as we know the scarlets won't come with the ssd module like epics will so add another 1500 at least for that. Right?

 

[Nik Harper]

And as far as we know the scarlets won't come with the ssd module like epics will so add another 1500 at least for that. Right?

The package deal that was originally stated, included a side CF module, so if you're getting the package deal then the side CF should be included in that. Who knows, it may change but so far all that has been said is that the epic will be shipping with a side ssd module, well during stages 2 and 3 at least.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

I think RED is working on figuring out a final price for the Side SSD module now that they have canceled the CF module for both Epic and Scarlet. They originally had the Side SSD module listed at $2,500 but Jim recently said they were going to try to keep it closer to $500 if you bought it in a package with media.

Now that SSD will be the only media RED makes from here on out (and the legacy 16gb CF cards) economy of scale should help them bring it down from that $2,500 price. No word on how much the CF card adapter for the SSD module is though.

 

[Nik Harper]

I think RED is working on figuring out a final price for the Side SSD module now that they have canceled the CF module for both Epic and Scarlet. They originally had the Side SSD module listed at $2,500 but Jim recently said they were going to try to keep it closer to $500 if you bought it in a package with media.

Now that SSD will be the only media RED makes from here on out (and the legacy 16gb CF cards) economy of scale should help them bring it down from that $2,500 price. No word on how much the CF card adapter for the SSD module is though.

I could definitely see that happening, at least they are making the little CF card adapter for the SSD module

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

It would be very good if Red did give the option to choose between cf or ssd. Then charge abit extra for the ssd package. I mean so you don't have to buy the cf and take it of and then mount the ssd. The same would go for the monitor since i would like a the 5" but then again if you have a good deal with big volumes I sure understand.

 

[Jesper Sichlau]

So, if you need a minimum of 10 hours recording ability (i.e. no offloading) that would be 3 256GB SSDs.

$3200.00 x 3 = $9600.00
3.5 x 3 = 10.5 hours

That is, of course, assuming a fairly high data rate. If you don't need the mbs and are comfortable shooting with less, then you may be able to fit it all onto 2 drives instead of 3.

Who would shoot 10 straight hours a day? The camera probably couldn't shoot for that long without brakes anyway.

 

[Alex.Mitchell]

On the last feature that I was on we had two cameras running simultaneously and we shot between between 160-320 GB a day, total. I'd imagine, with one Scarlet 2/3", your requirements would be pretty reasonable, especially if you weren't too wasteful with your rolls. I think I'll probably grab one 64GB and a CF card adapter, then rent if I need more. Lord knows us Scarlet users aren't made of cash.

 

[Aaron Newsome]

Who would shoot 10 straight hours a day? The camera probably couldn't shoot for that long without brakes anyway.

I just did 4 shooting days on a documentary. The entire documentary consists of a whole lot of interviews intercut. Each interview takes over an hour to conduct and there are many interviews being recorded each day.

10 hours of straight recording every day would be normal in a situation like this.

 

[Nelson Alexandre]

I just did 4 shooting days on a documentary. The entire documentary consists of a whole lot of interviews intercut. Each interview takes over an hour to conduct and there are many interviews being recorded each day.

10 hours of straight recording every day would be normal in a situation like this.

And in a situation like that I'm going to need USD9600 in media alone????

 

[David Rasberry]

And in a situation like that I'm going to need USD9600 in media alone????

Or off load to external PC or other media, back up during breaks and reuse your recording media. Or use HDMI or HDSDI clean feed out to record to a more compressed HD video format on external recorder with lots of storage.

 

[Nelson Alexandre]

Is RED a media manufacturer? How come CF and SSD media from them costs about 5 times the price of a renown media developer?

I can be wrong but probably someone out there is making the cards and they just stamp the RED logo on them right?

Probably many RED 1 users have already tried out some "non official" recording media. Can anyone share the results on that?

 

[Kevin Marshall]

Is RED a media manufacturer? How come CF and SSD media from them costs about 5 times the price of a renown media developer?

I can be wrong but probably someone out there is making the cards and they just stamp the RED logo on them right?

Probably many RED 1 users have already tried out some "non official" recording media. Can anyone share the results on that?

The issue's been addressed numerous times, from multiple people at RED. Basically, nothing "off-the-shelf" is up to snuff - taking into consideration things like sustained data rates, durability, and manufacturing tolerances.

EDIT: Here's a recent post from Jim illustrating some of these points:

Moore's law will kick in at some point I'm sure. We have priced them at what we think will happen, not what is now. That would be too expensive. The data rates in these SSDs is high. We have the exact same problem as with CF cards. Manufacturers specs don't match real performance so we had to pay a premium for guaranteed performance. Deanan has been pulling the remaining hairs out of his head working on this. It amazes all of us how loose the memory guys are with specs. Our customers don't need to worry about it... we do. But I can say that this is no easy trick. Deanan has the MB/sec. specs.

Jim

There's a whole thread on it:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51616

 

[Aaron Newsome]

Is RED a media manufacturer? How come CF and SSD media from them costs about 5 times the price of a renown media developer?

I can be wrong but probably someone out there is making the cards and they just stamp the RED logo on them right?

Probably many RED 1 users have already tried out some "non official" recording media. Can anyone share the results on that?

You can't just say "stamp a logo on it". That's just flat out wrong. What happened to the hundreds of man hours spent testing, verifying and certifying the media to begin with? Working closely with the manufacturer to make sure the media is certified and the process going forward is locked to ensure performance.

All the hours spent verifying that the manufactured media will actually perform once it leaves RED and is shipped to a customer.

A few dozen other things other than "stamping a logo on it" that I'm probably forgetting about but people seem to think that all the man hours that go into these tasks is somehow free and the cost of those man hours should not be recouped.

 

[Jameson Jordan]

What do you guys think is going to be the most popular Media choice for rentals? (4) 64GB SSD or (2) 128 GB or more?

 

[andrewhake]

I can't believe people complain about the price of storage. How much does Sony charge for SxS cards? Panisonic for P2? (Sony SxS 32gb is $599 last I checked)

Not only that, who says you can't use CF cards in Scarlet without any problems at all?

 

[paul engstrom]

Hi Andrew,

I'm pretty sure it was Red who said the CF cards are too slow. We will be able to use CF cards but with reduced framerates and compression settings; I'm not sure but I think the High Dynamic Range/Motion stuff would be crippled too.

For example, RED's current 8GB CF cards cannot do 4k 16:9 30fps redcode 36 on a RED1 body. I'm under the impression that there would more even more restriction using such cards on a Scarlet or Epic...

Another reason for RED SSD being more expensive has to do with some changes to the pins so that they can plugged in and out many times...

Regards,
P

 

[Leo Sardello]

I think I'll probably grab one 64GB and a CF card adapter, then rent if I need more. Lord knows us Scarlet users aren't made of cash.

This is right on the money. If you have a specific project that requires such long record times with NO offloading, you can rent the extra media. If you shoot these kinds of projects so often that purchasing the media becomes financially more reasonable than renting it, one would hope that those projects are bringing in the kind of funding that would easily allow for that.

The question is how long it takes to offload a card. IF it is real time or faster, then two cards of any size can be continually cycled to record up to forever. Three if you can’t ever stop recording, which is a pretty extreme case.

 

[Nelson Alexandre]

You can't just say "stamp a logo on it". That's just flat out wrong. What happened to the hundreds of man hours spent testing, verifying and certifying the media to begin with? Working closely with the manufacturer to make sure the media is certified and the process going forward is locked to ensure performance.

All the hours spent verifying that the manufactured media will actually perform once it leaves RED and is shipped to a customer.

A few dozen other things other than "stamping a logo on it" that I'm probably forgetting about but people seem to think that all the man hours that go into these tasks is somehow free and the cost of those man hours should not be recouped.

I know that RED is a small company compared to others like Sony and Panasonic, but stating that a card is worth 5 times the money others ask for it based on testing alone is a bit overwhelming for me!...