Red lenses

[Frank Mirbach]

Well, I intend to by both the zooms although I heard there have been some issues with early models, which aren´t present at all the lenses though. I was a bit dissapointed about the feel of the lenses at IBC, too. They felt like plastic, absolutely not like the Zeiss lenses I´m used too. Then again they might have been kind of prototypes also, because somewhere I read they would be made of metal in the future. Anyway, I think the price is unbeatable and I don´t expect Red to deliver crap with their lenses. They would loose too much here.

 

[roryhinds]

people keep going on about the price of the Zoom... for me if there is play in the zoom and focus gears and the focus markers are off then the cost of the lens it besides the point - as it doesn't deliver.

 

[Michael Ragen]

Hey Rory, have you looked at any zoom alternatives? I'm not finding any that would be suitable for handheld at that price point unless I went Nikon or eos which I would really prefer not to do.

 

[Evin Grant]

There is no similarly priced handheld zoom. The closest thing would used Zeiss vary primes at $15,000 each.

 

[Matt Uhry]

There is no similarly priced handheld zoom. The closest thing would used Zeiss vary primes at $15,000 each.

For me the VP1 and VP2 don't really compare with the Red 18-50. The Zeiss's are almost a stop faster and are better corrected for distortion and breathing and way sharper at the edges. They also have excellent mechanicals, no backlash, scribed focus and zoom marks, accurate T-stops. You get what you pay for.

The 18-50 is a fine compact zoom... Not a replacement for a good set of primes, not a "studio zoom"

It compares to Optar 25-80's $6400 and converted Canon 17-35's $15k new much less used...

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[Andrew M.]

If 18-50 has sharp and negligible CA, then mechanics and calibrations is easy to improve.
The most difficult thing is to get no noticeable CA at the edges, also to get to 150 lp/mm there is very tough.
I am surprised that Matt is reporting the following:
“the lens is very sharp. at any focal length I could get 200lp/mm in the center and at least 100 at the edges ( a bit less good as you go towards 50mm )”

So far on the other lenses I have seen and tested, I have noticed improved and much higher lp/mm count going above 28 mm Also CA was much more noticeable below 40mm
Looks like all what you are reporting so far is the manufacture process learning curve and most of it will be gone after adjustments.
Matt, are you sure that you were loosing lp/mm count going higher with FL?
If so, after the fine tuning the worse reading will be where the best one is now, it mean at 20 mm FL

 

[Stephen Williams]

,
then mechanics and calibrations is easy to improve.

Hi Andrew,

Normally I agree with what you say, not this time. The reason why motion picture lenses are so expensive is the mechanics that cost the money, setting up a lens to a high standard takes time, that increases the cost.

Cooke lenses are well made, zoom lenses from the 1970's are still in use every day throughout the world. You only cry once when you buy the best.

Stephen

 

[Stephen Williams]

I would be interested to learn the findings of anyone who has tested the 18-50 in terms of aperture marking accuracy. Did anyone perform a controlled test and would be willing to share their results?

Hi,

Such tests have been performed, I am unable to disclose any further information as I received that information in confidence.

Stephen

 

[Frank Mirbach]

I think we should give Red time to solve the issues with their early lenses. They just can´t afford shipping a glass that can´t be used professionally. Of course, for that price, you won´t get a Zeiss, but some good lenses to go out with your camera body. For me, it doesn´t make sense to have the body, but no lenses for it. If I need some additional glass - depending on the project´s needs - I can still rent some Zeiss primes.

 

[Andrew M.]

Hi Andrew,

Normally I agree with what you say, not this time. The reason why motion picture lenses are so expensive is the mechanics that cost the money, setting up a lens to a high standard takes time, that increases the cost.

Cooke lenses are well made, zoom lenses from the 1970's are still in use every day throughout the world. You only cry once when you buy the best.

Stephen

Stephen, I would agree with you if we were talking about mature product.
Here we are talking about S/Ns of lens of less then 50 or 80
Mechanical problems in early cycle of production, could be fixed by using just better subcontractor or better NC control machines if you do it in house. There is nothing mysterious about mechanical design of the top of the line lenses. What is important though, is the glass and the general design of the lenses that now days is kind of the art in itself.
I guess they focused on the glass, got good results and they didn’t pay proper attention to the mechanical problems that BTW is not a rocket science. It is called selective focus of starved resources. You put maximum efforts in the most crucial segment of the design process. Too bad that you can’t fix it by firmware upgrade.

 

[chuck colburn]

Andrew how much optical device design and or repair have you done?

 

[Kevin Halverson]

Hi,

Such tests have been performed, I am unable to disclose any further information as I received that information in confidence.

Stephen

Just wanted to compare to the tests that I have to see if there was any consistency to the findings. I am always reluctant to make a proclamation based upon too small of sampling.

 

[Andrew M.]

Andrew how much optical device design and or repair have you done?

Chuck, let say I red a few good books about lenses.
All what I had read so far indicates that the bottle neck is in the design of the glass and light track, the way it moves in case of the zoom lenses, and the precision of the mounting.
Where the precision of the lens mounting is the least challenging factor taking under account the advances in the precission of computer controlled mechanical proceses.
I had opportunity to follow the development of the Zeiss UP8R and the most challenging point there was not the mechanical design, believe me.

I am not the expert in this field and I will listen to anything I am interested in, from the good sources of information.

http://www.sinopt.com/learning1/optsoft/whither/whither.htm
http://www.usa.canon.com/industrial_bctv/Whitepapers/WhitePaperLens_2FINALMarch4th05.pdf

Interesting articles:
http://www.dyxum.com/columns/articles/lenses/SAL-85F14CZ/Carl-zeiss-SAL-85F14CZ_review.asp


Chuck, what do you think is the most challenging aspect in the lens design?

Andrew

 

[Stephen Williams]

Just wanted to compare to the tests that I have to see if there was any consistency to the findings. I am always reluctant to make a proclamation based upon too small of sampling.

Hi,

When the lenses were stopped down consistencies were observed, I think that may answer your question.

Stephen

 

[Stephen Williams]

Chuck, let say I red a few good books about lenses.
All what I had read so far indicates that the bottle neck is in the design of the glass and light track, the way it moves in case of the zoom lenses, and the precision of the mounting.

Hi Andrew,

The glass comes from Sigma. The mechanical modifications seem to be the issue here. Unfortunately made in the UK can mean a no of things, as anybody who owned a car built by BL will confirm.

Stephen