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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red/ iPod Movie Slate and the future of this technology

D

Dabling Harward

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Well I just purchased the Movie Slate from the app store and I have to say it's a pretty nice app. Typically I don't ever use a slate because I'm a one man band so I keep all the notes mentally and can line up audio in post with the waveforms.

When I shoot music videos, I never use a slate. I already have different sections of the song rendered out that I want to shoot in a playlist on my ipod. The countdown blips are all done in FCP and added to the playback song so it's very simple to line everything up in post. My ipod feeds my sennheiser transmitter which feeds two receivers, one for the playback speaker and the other to the camera. No assistant needed to place a slate in front of the camera. Just multiclip the different sections from the blips, drop it down to the appropriate place on the timeline and it's as easy as that.

I think this ipod/ipad app has some amazing potential to change the game. Here's what I was brainstorming last night. Check out this scenario. Let's say Red comes out with a USB connection for the ipod that will allow the ipod slate screen to come up in the camera itself instead of having an assistant hold the slate in front of the lens. Just like plugging in the ipod to your car, it comes up on your stereo. Or when Steve Jobs does a presentation, it comes up on the screen. Now the ipod becomes a permanent accessory on the camera. You can make your notes right there without having to run in front of the camera. The slate takes place in an image floating on the screen.

I'm sure a program could be written that would allow the camera to overlay the ipod image on the screen and record it and have it disappear a few seconds after the slate is clapped. Now think of the potential of all the cameras on set having this technology. The Assistant or Sound Guy has the master control on his ipad and can see and control via WiFi or Bluetooth all the ipods on all the cameras on set. When he claps his master slate all the cameras get the exact same clap via their own ipods on the overlay. He could pull up any one of the various slates on his ipad and make his notes. All from one master source.

It's nearly 2011. How long do we have to put up the time and hassle it takes lose focus and have to recompose just to get a slate in the shot. Having all cameras focused and composed ready to go instantly will not only be a huge time savings on set, but imagine the how streamlined the footage will be in post. Every single shot will be clearly slated and perfect for the editor.

Cmon, folks, chime in and put your heads together and lets get this rolling. I know we can make this happen. I could see this technology up and running in 6 months.
 
Epic will have overlay input to camera as well as some form of in-camera slating so yeah, what you're saying is close to being true.... :)

HTH

Paul
 
Paul Leeming said:
Epic will have overlay input to camera as well as some form of in-camera slating so yeah, what you're saying is close to being true.... :)

HTH

Paul
Click to expand...

Like the SI2k? I hadn't heard that. Very cool. Hopefully you could just hand Scripty a red-mote and let them fill out the slate numbers.

Very very cool.
 
I hadn't heard that either. If thats something thats right around the corner for Epic, that's great news.
 
Well a slate with timecode costs around $1500. I was so impressed with the slate on my iPhone that I felt completely justified in buying an iPad just to run MovieSlate. The way I see it, the cost was HALF and I got a cool, multifunctional device to boot.
 
Dabling Harward said:
I'm sure a program could be written that would allow the camera to overlay the ipod image on the screen and record it and have it disappear a few seconds after the slate is clapped. Now think of the potential of all the cameras on set having this technology. The Assistant or Sound Guy has the master control on his ipad and can see and control via WiFi or Bluetooth all the ipods on all the cameras on set. When he claps his master slate all the cameras get the exact same clap via their own ipods on the overlay. He could pull up any one of the various slates on his ipad and make his notes. All from one master source.
Click to expand...

SI2k does this now.
 
Update for the app just came out today. Looks like some of the things I talked about earlier has made its way into the app. The wifi control of different ipads/ipods is huge as well as new timecode syncing functions. If the creator keeps progressing like this, I'm really going to have to take this app seriously.

Haven't gone through all the new functions yet but I don't know why he labeled 23.976, 29.97 and 59.94 as drop frame though.
 
Ha Ha. I just bought the app today on set, after buying two cheaper ones that were so buggy they were useless.
Best twenty bucks I've spent in a while.
 
Dabling Harward said:
Update for the app just came out today. Looks like some of the things I talked about earlier has made its way into the app. The wifi control of different ipads/ipods is huge as well as new timecode syncing functions. If the creator keeps progressing like this, I'm really going to have to take this app seriously.

Haven't gone through all the new functions yet but I don't know why he labeled 23.976, 29.97 and 59.94 as drop frame though.
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So, in summary, which will be the cable connections requirement for the app and the R1? Will the LTC sound come from the "Audio Out" mini-xlr, Timecode LEMO or the camera Genlock DIN? Who or where this cable (from mini-xlr, BNC or LEMO to four connection mini jack for the iPad end) be supplied, or are they custom made?

Please advise.
 
The great thing about buying a real Denecke or Ambient slate is that you can drop them onto concrete from 3 feet and they'll probably still work. I wouldn't want to drop either an iPad or an iPhone, nor would I want to hand them off to an assistant camera operator, knowing how much things get banged around in the heat of production, 12 hours a day.

The reason for paying $1000+ for a real timecode slate is rock-steady stability and reliability. Unless you can really rely on jammed timecode working perfectly, it's all very dodgy. BTW, don't forget that slates are a dirt-cheap rental item in most large cities -- $25 a day, maybe $100 a week, tops.

I think there are very good technical and historical reasons why a traditional slate is desired. I've had actors tell me that the clap of the slate is enough to give them an adrenalin rush to get them through the scene (though some are also intimidated and annoyed by it). Using a cheap alternate electronic slate looks cool on the surface, but to me, I think there are a hundred other crucial issues on a set that are more important to worry about.
 
With the pro sync module, which is an extra 50 bucks you can receive and send through the TRRS plug out of the headphone output. TRRS to whatever, I don't know the limitations. I'm sure someone on this board has tried some different configs.

I'm hoping EPIC and Scarlet will have a USB plug that utilizes the 30 pin connector which will allow the app to talk directly to the camera.
 
Marc Wielage said:
I think there are very good technical and historical reasons why a traditional slate is desired. I've had actors tell me that the clap of the slate is enough to give them an adrenalin rush to get them through the scene
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Traditional slates are great just like traditional film is great. No one is knocking the tried and true system that's been in place forever. In this new era of digital filmmaking, it's nice to see a new more advanced way of doing things. Jim has pioneered that way of thought with the RED and it shouldn't just stop there.

I think once this gets up and running, we'll look back and ask how we got along with just a simple slate. The note taking ability on this app alone is a huge step for post production. Emailing them straight from the app couldn't be easier.

(Hopefully)if what I think can work with all the ipods connected to the cameras, with an overlay interface, there will be no handing off of slates (dropping them on concrete). One master slate controls all. Besides, iPods are cheap.

Marc, when I first saw this app, I didn't take it seriously. Oh a cool looking toy I thought. But just like Jim's vision with RED, I can see where this can lead as well.
 
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Dabling Harward said:
"...TRRS to whatever, I don't know the limitations. I'm sure someone on this board has tried some different configs.
Click to expand...

Well, that is exactly what I am trying to figure it out: the "...TRRS to whatever" input/output that is the correct one (Genlock BNC, Audio out XLR, or Timecode LEMO)? :blushing:

Can some one that has been successful with the connectivity share such configuration (s), and their pros and cons? :confused1:

I have a big production a week from tomorrow, so I really would like to be able to have this sorted out to buy the appropriate cable (s) for sync camera, audio and slate.

Thanks!
 
Anson Fogel said:
Luis -

I was just considering posting that question as a new thread...
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I think it is a good idea. Go ahead and do it. I really need a definite answer. I cannot buy ALL of them to identify which one works!

Thanks!
 
Luis,

Left a message for the apps creator. Let's see if he calls back so we all can get some answers. Or at least chime in.
 
MovieSlate currently only accepts LTC over the headphone jack of the iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch-- what this means is that the LTC signal must be at MIC level when coming in. Thats really the only requirement, if the Red cams output LTC at LINE level (as most cameras and audio records do) you'll need to pad/attenuate the LTC signal before sending it to MovieSlate.

We have an FAQ on our website that lists some possible connection chains along with TRRS connectors with built-in attenuators that bring the signal down to mic level:

http://www.pureblendsoftware.com/FAQs/10178/3/27/

I hope this helps answer questions about the cabling, at least on MovieSlate's end.
 
The concept of MovieSlate transmitting video over the standard dock connector-to-video cable has been on our long-range TO DO list since version 1. We've just never been sure how popular a feature this would be with users. In budgeting our time I must admit we've put more resources towards improving user experience and reliability implementing from that long-range future feature list.

Is the video overlay a feature that would be widely used?
 
One thing we've learned in the process of writing MovieSlate over the past 15 months: The app is different things to different people. We've heard from camera folks, audio folks, script supervisors, directors, and film students. Each group has a very different idea of what MovieSlate is (despite our marketing) and what they get from it.

Some folks are concerned only with timecode, others only with slating shots, still others could care less about what TC is displayed and use only the shot logging and note taking features.

MovieSlate was designed as an aid to ourselves and our shooting style: On site interviews with 2 cameras, no slating, and making notes when the interviewee said something of consequence. The iPhone was the perfect platform for this since having our laptops on set and typing notes on them was surprisingly distracting to the interviewee.

Everything we've added to MovieSlate outside of those core features has been as a result of feature suggestions and contact with users. *Everyone* seems to have their own workflow and "things are different here" is the standard response. We strive to make MovieSlate flexible enough to suit as many folks as possible without alienating any one group. Based upon the feedback we've received so far it seems we've done a respectable job.

As for the "toughness" of these devices... yeah you drop an ipad from an average height onto concrete and you're likely screwed, regardless if you've put a "tough" case on it or not.

Marc Wielage said:
The great thing about buying a real Denecke or Ambient slate is that you can drop them onto concrete from 3 feet and they'll probably still work. I wouldn't want to drop either an iPad or an iPhone, nor would I want to hand them off to an assistant camera operator, knowing how much things get banged around in the heat of production, 12 hours a day.

The reason for paying $1000+ for a real timecode slate is rock-steady stability and reliability. Unless you can really rely on jammed timecode working perfectly, it's all very dodgy. BTW, don't forget that slates are a dirt-cheap rental item in most large cities -- $25 a day, maybe $100 a week, tops.

I think there are very good technical and historical reasons why a traditional slate is desired. I've had actors tell me that the clap of the slate is enough to give them an adrenalin rush to get them through the scene (though some are also intimidated and annoyed by it). Using a cheap alternate electronic slate looks cool on the surface, but to me, I think there are a hundred other crucial issues on a set that are more important to worry about.
Click to expand...
 
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