RED IN EUROPE? Bye bye UK... and now?

[Massimiliano_Serra]

There will be no change for customers following the completion of BREXIT. Additional paperwork maybe required, but our team are on hand to ensure this process is made as easy as possible.

There are some advantages in certain circumstances as John points out, but apart from that RED London will still continue to serve all of UK and all of Europe. This includes all sales, service and support.

That's not only a matter of "paperwork", RED need to do better homework about the issue for the love of EU customers.

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

If you're in France, don't buy from the UK, Red never really understood the problems of customs (see Jarred's answers completely off the mark). Buy from Teltec in Germany or TRM in France. Teltec is doing the sales AND the technical support. You'll thank me later. The UK is out of Europe now and they still haven't understood what it really means, they still believe nothing has changed and try to convince the others to keep their business alive

It's an advice from someone who suffered from import/export issues during shootings. Red support in Europe is Red's biggest drawback compared to Canon/Sony/Arri...

Was there a massive earthquake? Or is this “new” geography. Last time I checked, the UK was still in Europe. I even checked with Google, just to be sure nothing happened overnight and yep, the UK is still part of the continent and geographical area known as Europe. They may no longer be in the European Union, but again, that is completely different.

 

[Uros Zuraj]

sorry Christopher buy we all know what Kristin meant by "Europe"... so your comment is a bit out of topic and didnt needed to be made.

Yes Jarred doesnt know how it is. This week I got a replacement lens support and some screws from CVP in UK to Slovenia. This was paid back in November, but the wrong lens support was sent. Back then you didnt have to do "temporary export" as it was still EU, now the items were sent to me from outside EU and i had to pay 36eur for customs procedure and the value of the items even tho i paid before Brexit. its a shitshow!!! and Red is not seeing the problem.

 

[William Long]

Yes, unfortunately it is quite a lot more complicated than what Jarred and John allude to.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Was there a massive earthquake? Or is this “new” geography. Last time I checked, the UK was still in Europe. I even checked with Google, just to be sure nothing happened overnight and yep, the UK is still part of the continent and geographical area known as Europe. They may no longer be in the European Union, but again, that is completely different.

If the idea is that Red UK handles purchases and support for European customers but are positioned outside of EU so that the regulations and laws applies the same as if we purchased and got support from Red US directly, then the point of having a EU office is irrelevant. A European office should imply EU primarily since that's what most of Europe is consisted of. After Brexit, a UK office is good for UK only. The ones who benefit are UK productions, which are a lot, but calling Red UK "Red Europe" rings false towards all customers within EU since we get nothing out of ordering or handling support from Red UK compared to Red US directly.

Why can't people just get the simple fact that we need a EU office so we can handle purchases and support without dealing with customs fees, VAT on top of VAT and all that paperwork. If this doesn't get solved, all EU member customers have to go through dealers and we won't rationally be able to continue being direct customers with Red without losing a lot of money and time.

 

[William Long]

I bought my first RED camera through RED Europe and upgraded the sensor through CVP. Both of these actions would cost me more today, if I attempted to do that now.

Quite understandably, UK companies are desperately trying to make it sound like 'business as usual' - and in a way, for them, it is. They still sell their product at the same price and can send it off like they have always done. But for those of us, on the other side of the 'Brexit-draw-bridge', it is a very different scenario with additional charges, taxes, duties etc. Some larger UK companies, like CVP, realise this and are trying to find ways to counter this disruption for EU customers.


At the risk of being extra-repetitive this is what CVP advise at the moment:

'EU CUSTOMERS AND BREXIT
IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR EU CUSTOMERS FROM CVP

CVP remains open for international trade. We value our customers, strive to maintain our partnerships and continue providing the excellent levels of expertise, customer service and value that you’re used to.

Due to changes in international shipping charges, all orders being delivered internationally or to an address in Europe (excluding UK) placed from 1st January 2021 will be subject to local taxes and duties.

We have appointed an internal taskforce to scrutinise developments and share knowledge and best practices. The team will continue to monitor and review all strategic, operational and commercial aspects of the Brexit changes and its impact on ours and your business.

We are developing a simple web tool which will allow you to calculate what duties - if any - and which taxes will be applicable to your purchase. This will enable you to make an informed choice; whether to pay all costs (e.g. including products, shipping, duties and local VAT) upfront (e.g. using Delivered Duty Paid - DDP) or just pay for your goods and shipping through CVP and pick up the additional costs (e.g. duties and taxes) yourself. More information on the web tool will be available soon.

In the meantime, to minimise errors, we will ship your order on a Delivered at Place (DAP) basis whereby your costs with CVP include the products and shipping and the responsibility to pay any import duties and local VAT remain with you.

We hope to have the calculator tool ready soon to make this process as easy as possible, however if you want to speak to one of our team to help you understand if any duties will be applicable, or assist with any questions or concerns, please call 0208 380 7400 or talk to one of our experts on our live chat.'



PS - Funnily enough (or not), I want to buy a new RED camera and upgrade a sensor. Just not sure how I should best do it.

 

[Gregory Karydis]

I am on the same boat as many of my fellow EU based redusers.
But somehow I feel confident that while additional paperwork will be required, we will have no more complications. The RED Europe Team has been extremely helpful in the past and I am sure will continue to be so post-Brexit.
I have another Komodo on the way and I'm sure I will find out soon...

 

[Andreas Eymannsberger]

I am experiencing the same insecurities that appear to be none right now. My Komodo is supposed to be exchanged for a new one because of a hardware error and even getting the camera to the UK involves more customs & tax knowledge than every usual business-person that is not in the logistics sector would possibly have. Don't get me wrong - the Red service in itself is great so far - and will be in the UK perhaps, things just got out of hand for the UK when it comes to customs and stuff Red can't control. If I clicked the wrong type of Incoterms handling when shipping I would (per terms & conditions of the logistics comapny) probably be billed more than 1000€ for import duties of a camera I have to send back to Red. Without any possibility to recoup this, compared to Red UK. For how many of you does

EXW Ex Works
FCA Free Carrier
CPT Carriage Paid To
CIP Carriage And Insurance Paid To
DAP Delivered at Place
DPU 1 Delivered at Place Unloaded
DDP Delivered Duty Paid

among others sound remotely familier? I bet hardly anybody that isn't in commerce/trading/logistics. It might be easy for CVP and Red who deal with these kind of things on a daily basis, but for 98% of Reds customers that are not dealers themselves or large rental houses this is an extreme burden compared to a place within the EU. It could perhaps be easy: I could perhaps assign a logistics handler for me that knows this kind of stuff, but to be honest I don't want to pay 20-30% of the price of the camera that is being exchanged just for import handling. Who would?!

It is in fact easier to get stuff from Red or CVP because they are dealing with shipping & handling and it's somewhat more transparent to deal with customs in your homecountry if you have VAT-number, etc. - but if you have to make shure that you are not held responsible for import costs upon sending something with a logistics handler (FedEx, UPS, etc.) - which can be an option per gerneal terms and conditions, this is just too much too deal with on a gerneal basis and for 98% of customers.

I have reached out to Red UK to help me with my retourn of the camera to them (to have my new one shipped from California) because I sincerely feel like in way over my head just getting the camera to them and have them recoup import tax & duties. I really hope they reach out at some point, so far I only got my information from Red HQ Customer Service, but in cases of Brexit (that is arguably hard for anybody involved that knows this stuff and has to deal with it) this just got mad. If somebody at Red UK reads this or my mail from this morning, I really hope you can provide me with help & service.

 

[William Long]

Sorry to hear about that Andreas.

It is exactly this sort of unfortunate scenario that you describe that raises concern. I have the same question regarding sensor upgrades and camera service.
I did everything through the UK but now unfortunately, I can see it is possibly coming to an end.

Normal support and service with RED Europe is no longer so easy or accessible.

 

[Arkady Vyrlan]

I have ordered my Komodo via CVP in November and asked them about import taxes to Spain. The answer was

"Red Komodo is 0.8% in EU. So duty = 0.8% x the sell price.
Please let me know if you need anything else.
Hope this helps.
Thanks"

Not as bad as we used to think.

 

[Andreas Eymannsberger]

It is exactly this sort of unfortunate scenario that you describe that raises concern. I have the same question regarding sensor upgrades and camera service.

I was told by customer support that Dealers couldn't do anything regarding my issue. So I greatly appreciate Red offering service on their own and to exchange the camera for a new one is great! Not one bad word about their service.

It's just that the surroundings have changed and although Red offers great service I'm doubtful that they can mitigate the problems surrounding their service with Brexit. And because it was mentioned before - it kind of feels like the UK have left Europe. At least commercially. I don't feel a lot of difference shipping to Berlin or Madrid or Stockholm (from Austria), rather than within Austria. But things got steep with Brexit for regular customers.

So I wouldn't count on dealers a lot regarding Komodo or maybe even future camera systems. From what I heard I'm doubtful Teltec (for example) could repair a Komodo. Or offer an exchange for a new one. That's the problem - they are also customers of Red of some sort without - what I feel is real authority over handling service. No problem if the Red service is as good as it is.

But it won't be as easy in the future.

 

[Andreas Eymannsberger]

I have ordered my Komodo via CVP in November and asked them about import taxes to Spain. The answer was

"Red Komodo is 0.8% in EU. So duty = 0.8% x the sell price.
Please let me know if you need anything else.
Hope this helps.
Thanks"

Not as bad as we used to think.

Yeah, that's upon import. Try sending your faulty camera to Red UK.

I still don't know who pays for up to 20% import tax and customs to the UK. Hopefully Red Europe as they can recoup (pre-tax) the rest but the 0.8% (I'm facing these 0.8% + 20% import tax as well when going the other round and the new camera is being shipped from the US, this is not the issue, as I can recoup import-VAT). The problem is the other way round. Just make shure you have your EORI number ready and your EU-VAT-number connected to it and tell the logistics company to bill import-VAT + 0.8% customs directly to your account to avoid handling fees or loss of pre-tax-deduction.

 

[Arkady Vyrlan]

Yeah, that's upon import. Try sending your faulty camera to Red UK.

I still don't know who pays for up to 20% import tax and customs. Hopefully Red Europe as they recoup the rest but the 0.8% (I'm facing this as well while being shipped from the US, this is not the issue, as I can recoup import-VAT).
The problem is the other way round.

hm! I had a case when I had to send my faulty Westone W4R back to merchant in US from Spain. They provided me a special RMA number and all the papers I've attached to package and gave to DHL courier, then I was changed for newer model and sent back to me without any issues and additional payments.
I believe there are options to send faulty items marked as returned by warraty issues.

 

[Andreas Eymannsberger]

RED UK has updated me with a RMA and shipping procedures, even covering shipping unter the warranty exchange program.

As I said: It's scary at times to deal with procedures, but when their service kicks in, it is really, really good.

 

[Bertrand_B]

For those who advice me to buy my Komodo from Teltec, they just answer me that they aren't allowed to sell out of Germany and Austria. So TRM or CVP for French, but TRM asked a 1000 euros deposit, no refundable.