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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red for home use?

I'm worried about the focus also as I will be doing myself. Hope that magic focus assist is REAL good :)
 
Bokes said:
I keep reading about how difficult focus will be on RED- It's bumming me out. Is it really going to be so impossible? I have never used a 35mm motion picture camera, but I have used a Beta SP and arri 16mm- both manual zooms. Not easy, but I did not find it that hard. Will RED really be that much more difficult?
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It won't be impossible, no, but as Brook pointed out there is a reason why most cine camera departments have several people involved.

There are ways to "help" yourself maximize the depth of field to make focusing easier. First, you can shoot in the "windowed" mode with 16mm lenses - right off the bat you will increase the range pretty dramatically. You can also choose to shoot as wide and as closed down on the lens as possible (higher f-stop numbers), as this will also expand your range. In bright, sunny days, you will probably have to stop down anyway - so instead of throwing an ND on the camera, just close down the lens. A final solution is to shoot at higher ISOs; this will ensure the camera does not need as much light to be passed through the lens and again you can close down some. Of course shooting at higher ISOs (more sensor noise) or in windowed mode (cropping off lots of resolution) means you're not getting maximum quality out of the camera, but it may help to "train" the uninitiated user before requiring they jump in the deep end. We know that RED ONE is pretty elastic when it comes to pushing the ISO, and even at 2K images should be very nice. (It's still higher resolution than any HD format after all!) As one gets more comfortable shooting windowed, they can move up to shooting in full 4K - just be aware that this will most likely require purchase of a different lens.

With all of that in mind, I do think that RED will be a wake up call for many users - especially those who have never shot with a 35mm system before. Jim has been warning about it for months. At the very least, you'd be doing yourself a favor to rent an M2 for the day and see what it's like shooting at various f-stops with some Nikon or Canon glass. If someone is sitting down (like in an interview setting) and the camera is locked off, it's easy - just use your various focus assist methods, dial in pristine focus, and start rolling. But as soon as either the camera or the subject (or both!) is in motion, get ready for some fun. And he's talking about shooting kids? Oh boy. :)

That being said, I honestly don't believe it's our business to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do with their money, or more importantly, who this camera should or should not be used by. I like the original poster's spirit, and I'm assuming (hoping!) that if he's about to spend $20,000 on a camera, he's doing the research first. He did say that he is used to shooting images with a dSLR, so that's a start (he'll be more familiar with a lot of the manual terms and functions of RED). But rarely are you moving your camera around when you're shooting stills and that adds a totally different dimension to the experience. I do really like his Harley analogy though, and I say why not? The best way to learn is to just get in the trenches and do it. RED is certainly a major (r)evolution in digital camera design, and I know I'm excited. Good luck John. :-)
 
John Dobbs said:
I have been shooting pictures with my 1Ds camera and it blows away the stuff I had with my older point and shoot stuff. I had to practice for a while obviously since initally the pictures from the DSLR were not up to par until I got the hang of it.
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RED is 1.6 times easier to focus (less shallow depth of field) than a 35mm still camera like the Canon EOS-1Ds you mentioned.
 
Slinnn said:
Yes, except the 1Ds has autofocus. The Red hasn't... :tongue:
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I meant in manual mode of course... except if its difficult fo focus in auto with 1Ds :)

Anyway, I see it coming from a third party as an add-on... (a motorized mechanism for a range of lenses with live signal input from RED or simply with a distance ultrasonic sensor...)
 
I think Red is developing a profesional grade pocket camera that would be more suitable for home use. I don't know if this new camera is capable of 4k however the theory of putting advanced technology in the hands of the consumer is that if millions of units are produced then economies of scale start kicking in resulting in drastic price reductions that end up benefiting professionals.
 
Yes, but drastic price reductions are followed by advances in technology which lead to more sophisticated devices which increase cost and so on...

EDIT: The Pocket Pro camera will be positioned differently so it most likely will be a good HD or 2K camera...
 
John, were you maybe thinking about using RED for a security camera? If so, you may need more than one to cover all entrances.

pre-edit: just had a funny thought... what if someone were to break into your home to steal your security cameras! You would have great evidence footage!
 
Just to echo what Androbot said, I believe RED is developing a "pocket RED" which would be both smaller and be meant for news gathering applications, which means autofocus would most likely be available.

I think that for this style of work I would hold off until that version was available. Unfortunately I don't think RED has given us many details on it, and of course availability is likely to be far in the future.

Other than that compromise, there are 35mm lenses with built-in autofocus and image stabilization. He probably has one of those already for his 1Ds. Could it be possible to adapt one of those to use with the RED?

D
 
This is a guy after my own heart...

Jim
 
Interesting thread. I wonder how many RED reservation holders are intending to use it solely for home/hobby use. I have to admit that part of my interests in RED are hobby oriented, but still primarily professional. I will pull out RED to shoot some family and personal events. Just because I can and will do so in situations where I have the time and patience to get it set up properly and work with it. ...For everything else, I'll have my trusty Sony HDV handycam... Which totally sucks, but is still wonderful for chasing kids around the back yard.

A good analogy for buying RED for home movies and personal hobby use, is like buying a medium format still camera for every day use with the family. Sure, you could do it, but it's a lot of work and a lot of money spent and then you have to question what you're really getting out of it.

But RED for use as a hobby.... That makes sense to me. I know lots of people that put tens (even hundreds) of thousands of dollars into hobbies... Be it restoring cars, sculpting, RC cars or planes, flying real planes, etc.. $25K to even $75K isn't outlandish for an expensive hobby if someone is truly that interested and dedicated to it. ...So John, if this is what you want to do and it will make you happy and you have the means, go for it! If it turns out to be something you don't like after you have the camera, you probably won't have too much trouble re-selling it for a minimal loss.

Edit> I guess I could expand on the hobby expenditures even more -- thinking about it, I'm aware of people who spend several million $$ on their hobbies and passions, so by comparison, RED is cheap. :) A friend of mine has a passion for vintage aircraft and fighter jets. He belongs to a group that buys various aircraft and they work out time-share deals with their members. Their latest purchase is a retired USAF F-20 Tiger II trainer. They have an F-86 that I got to ride in a couple years ago. :w00t:
 
This is one seriously stacked dude :-) gotta love it!

My wife is constantly getting on to me for having a stack of professional video gear but never busting it out to film my 7 month old son :-)
 
Shawn Nelson said:
This is one seriously stacked dude :-) gotta love it!

My wife is constantly getting on to me for having a stack of professional video gear but never busting it out to film my 7 month old son :-)
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Shawn, set the kid on your lap when behind the camera and get him used to being there. THAT"S the business end.
 
I really don't see a problem with someone getting a camera like this for home movies. I thought this was one small factor why the RED was developed in the first place. Too take the technology out there and put it in peoples hands, regardless of what they want to do. This is the great "scare" of this technology, anyone will be able to make 2K and 4K content, I say this is a good thing. Just wait, I would not be surprised once the initial orders are caught up and regular sales with camera equipment in stock, this camera will end up with the rich crowd. It will be one those items like, Ferraris, mansions, personal jets, yachts, and the like. We will probably see professional athletes with these cameras, just for the cool factor. When you let the genie out of the bottle these are predictable outcomes. And before anyone doubts this, sports teams will probably look at these cameras and then to the players.
 
Probably one of the reasons this camera was conjured up in the first place.. do it. Photography and film making is a passion, a hobby. I see tons of amateur 35mm still photographers with expensive gear, this should be no different.
 
Obendega said:
The first thing I point out about the RED camera to people asking about recreational use is that THERE IS NO AUTOFOCUS.

Or auto iris for that matter.
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Wait what? There's no autofocus? Forget it I'm canceling my order. haha, j/k.

The autofocus on most DV cams seems to suck pretty badly anyway, or at least I think so, even doing amateur work with it was often frustrating so I just figured it was better to focus it yourself. I loved it on the *first day* of film school we were told, "Please, please don't use the green square to film (auto-everything, basically). You are in film school now."

I can't imagine using the RED for home video footage, heck I can't even imagine using the RED for behind-the-scenes footage. I'd still probably just shoot with HDV or something for that, easier and cheaper.
 
acehole said:
Probably one of the reasons this camera was conjured up in the first place.. do it. Photography and film making is a passion, a hobby. I see tons of amateur 35mm still photographers with expensive gear, this should be no different.
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In the 70s a lot of non professional wealthy people bought 16mm camera's to shoot their holydays.I bought a beaulieu to one of them 14 years ago, it took him more than 20 years to sold it! Even if their was a lot of out of focus in his holyday's movies..
 
John

I intend to use mine to shoot the kids amongst other things. The RedOne probably won't make the ideal family camcorder (I can't see my wife using it) but if you are motivated by image quality rather than ease of use it seems to be an excellent choice. Personally I think it is a lot harder to get decent images with small DV and HDV cameras than with larger pro gear. Sure there is a little more hassle involved... but that is half the fun. Definitely factor the price of a decent tripod into your package.

Where are you based? If you are in Europe it would definitely be worth coming along to IBC next month to see the camera in the flesh.

M
 
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