RED FOCUS..

[David Battistella]

There seem to be a lot of ideas floating around on what RED should do/could do, etc.

Maybe thinking about where this small company should focus its energy.

should they just worry about sensors and cameras and media?
make a killer post solution?
build the perfect module?
partner with more companies?

RED is a privately held company, Redusers are kinda like shareholders (more like family)

So I though I would start a thread to gauge what you think.
What do you want RED to focus on the most?
what would be ideal?
whats important to you?

And reduser

how can it be better?
what do you really want from this online experience?

general rules.

-try to be respectful and constructive
-act like you are sitting in a room with folks at RED
-really consider your ideas
-be creative


not sure where this will go, but I am posting this to find out and gauge what people are thinking about these days.


battistella

 

[George Butterfield]

It's approximately Seven plus years since RED started. I think we should wait another few years before we worry too much about where the company is headed. I think they're presently perfecting the Obsolescence is Obsolete Camera they had in mind at the beginning. I think by the Ten year mark their Obsolescence is Obsolete camera system will be a true thing of beauty.

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

Actually I am curious about people's opinions about what Red should be putting in the pipeline..... I would like to hear also from AC's about what they would like.... Dps, operators and AC's that is all. No post people, no producers.....

 

[D Fuller]

I think Red is doing spectacular work on the image. From what I'm seeing, the Dragon will be a beautiful creature. And Red is taking good steps to improve it even more -- the new OLPF, for example. That's good. Even Great.

Beyond that there are two areas that both come down to this: figure out how to play better with others.

First, (Sorry Peter, but from where I sit this one is really important) and second only to the cameras, is to knock the post workflow thing out of the park. That will require a three-pronged effort, I think: (a) get the RRX to full speed. It is a perfect tool for the high-volume shops and DITs who want to go home on time; (b) GPU rendering for Dragon and MX that will let smaller shops and owner-ops work efficiently with reasonably current hardware. They don't have to make everything work on a 5-year-old Mac Pro, but with the right GPU and RAID, it should work "acceptably" on anything more current than that, or Red should draw a line through the level of system that won't handle it. (c) establish and communicate standard LUTs so there is a little less "roll your own" going on in the interplay of various players in the post world, and more common reference. I know Red is doing great work in both A and B of these. But I want to emphasize their importance. Kill the "Red is hard to post" myth, and our lives all get a little easier.

Second, Sit down with ACs and DITs sound guys who have worked with all of the camera systems out there and hear all the irritating things about all of them. And then solve them. The trick here is that there are going to be different answers for different market segments. The modular system will help to be able to answer those differences, but the thinking has got to be really clear about who each module is serving. And as these discussions go on, be realistic about what can actually get done in a reasonable timeframe, and what is really long-range stuff. We know that new tech is hard, but some needs are just innovative packaging. And some of these might be partnerships. (A Sound Devices Mix Pre-D in module form would be a killer audio module.)

And for some specifics:
1. Time code that doesn't drift at all, all day. (or if that's not possible, a Lockit module)
2. An audio module that's half the size of the Pro IO, has mic/line switchable inputs, pots, meters, and XLR or Mini-XLR connectors.
3. More robust and flexible power distribution that includes D-tap and USP ports. (I know Red hates those, but there are just too many times when the devices se need to use come with those.) and that completely protects the camera from errant devices.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

The best mid-to-high level production cameras at competitive ("disruptive") pricing. This means a combination of hardware (sensors and ASICs(, firmware/software, and post processing technology. As an adjunct, the hardware to support this modular system. In short, keep doing what they are doing. Don't get distracted. Push boundaries.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

This is a weird thread- all RED does is implementing the feedback from this board. This is the main purpose of Reduser- direct communication between the manufacturer and the user base. It is more evident for Red than for any other company I know... for better (or worse).

 

[Matt Ryan]

As a shooter, a 4K "proxy" module would make selling the camera to productions much easier. The reason most of my jobs go with other cameras is because they have the ability to record direct to an efficient codec and that leaves less possibility for error on the post end of things (what most producers like). I believe a 4K (with options of 1080p, 2k, 4k) proxy module is really necessary to overtake a larger segment from Arri. Like I said in the other threads, this module needs to record slow mo real time. As a shooter the camera has everything I need, but that doesn't speak for the rest of the production. Proxies, Proxies, Proxies.... We can always go back to the R3D's for color, etc...

 

[Gunleik Groven]

It is a good idea to collect suggestions ONE place.

From what I have seen in the other threads, there are a few groups of suggestions:

Modules:
• Proxy - up to 4k/120FPS highspeed. Prores 4444/DNxHD and downwards. 1080 - 4k resolution.
• Lockit with genlock working at all base framerates.
• Audio with XLR's and physical knobs
• A "module" that transforms the current head into the ENG-style cam mentioned below. (Meizler II)
• Developing smarter "smartmounts", with remote focus capacity for electronic lenses
• "Better" EVF (preferably better than the Alexas) and integrated mount. No flaky EVFs anymore.
• 1080 wireless monitoring over wifi built in.
• 2/3 separate SDIs with the possibility to assign individual LUTs
• 4k monitoring option
• Power distribution
• "RED paintbox", so you can color for one SDI/Client and the DoP still can have whatever look he/she wants to control exposure (if I got this right)
• Built in ND's


New body/Bodies
• ENG-style all-in one "rental/production-standard" body (Audio/TC/in & outs/wifi/EVF & LCS at the same time/AC-friendly design/shoulder-mountable, quick to put on rods)
• Smaller/lighter even more hardcore "head"
• "The Nature/Doco" version: A body calibtrated 4-6 stops more sensitive in the lowlight (at the price of highlight sensitivity. not added DR, but a different calibration spot)
• Medium Format/617 Body
• 4:3 sensor
• Built in ND's (I would suggest getting on with the MotionMount, but I am not to directly edit suggestions here...)


Functionality
• Non-drifting TC (sounds more like GenLock issue to me...)
• Built in WiFi
• "Standard"power distribution, including D-tap for 3rd party accessories
• Different LUTS for different outputs
• Ability to load a transparent JPG or .mov for vfx matching
• Reading CDLs
• All video-outputs in sync. Shorter lead-time for the SDI
• Better positioning of the LCD/EVF contact
• Power Management bettered.
• Password-lock metadata (ouch... a dangerous feature in many workflows I would say...)


Post
• "Davids" smart on-set box (correct me if I remember wrongly)
A turnkey solution for automatic copy/transcode tasks on-set

• Focus on multiple GPU acceleration for the masses and let it trickle down the SDK as soon as possible
• Legacy Rocket support for Dragon (seems a gonner... )


Delivery
• 4k projector series.
• .RED to the masses (desktop playable and encodable)
• .RED distribution partner, if Odemax is dead in the sea. (Vimeo?)


Marketing/Communication with markets



Mark is a practical chap...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?111859-RED-FOCUS&p=1317617&viewfull=1#post1317617

Jeff also have a set of good points:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?111859-RED-FOCUS&p=1317919&viewfull=1#post1317919

Maybe an idea to group the ideas like this?
I try to edit together a single post here with the headlines of some of the ideas.


Dedicated AC input would be smart!

Play nice

Think out of the box!
Not only of what we have needed in the past, but what might be smart for the future.

 

[Thomas Koba]

- New Alexa/ENG style body with XLR's and knobs.
- Or even better, a body, which you can "click" your brain into.
- Remote Focus on EF lenses
- Better EVF
- Faster repair/shipping times on damaged items. (For us outside the US).
- Loctite'd nuts on Lemo cables!

Personally I would like a module, which replaces the sidehandle, but with a thinner profile, which adds buttons an dials along the side of the brain. But I would probably be the only one wanting this module

 

[Michael Moreno]

RED light weight still/dslr camera with redcode raw.

-I love my Scarlet for stills from motion, but it would be great to have a smaller body specifically for stills and maybe capable of 24 fps
-I need a stills camera and I would prefer it be Red

RED mini light weight sensor/lens mount b camera on a backpack tether

-Red's si2k/gopro
-Ability to shoot in places the current bodies will not allow

 

[Matt Ryan]

- New Alexa/ENG style body with XLR's and knobs.
- Or even better, a body, which you can "click" your brain into.

I'd say more F5/55 style. Alexa is large and bulky. I had to handhold one with a 19-90 for a live concert and my back has never hurt so bad in my life. That thing is a brick...

The F5/55 is lighter weight, smaller, has a lower center of gravity and better ergonomically than the Alexa while still having all the inputs/outputs.

 

[Nick Gardner]

By all means don't fuck with the tiny brain. If wanted, a module that combined xlr inputs, a +1 module, and a decent shoulder pad would be welcomed, but don't turn it into an alexa. The Mietzler (or whatever the hell it's called), is too much and +1 is too little. Smart, small modules are where it's at. Honestly, I am fine with the epic and +1 module. That does everything I need done in a small package. The camera is really close to perfect. it wouldn't take much to get it all the way there, and it can fit in with how it's already designed.

Nick

 

[Nick Morrison]

By all means don't fuck with the tiny brain. If wanted, a module that combined xlr inputs, a +1 module, and a decent shoulder pad would be welcomed, but don't turn it into an alexa.

+1...plus Wifi and timecode

 

[Adam Johnson]

Solving the Timecode issue

Recording in ProRes up to at least 4k/ 120 highframe at 4K

Red's version of an Arri Amira is my dream for the industry... for myself I dream of a lightweight compact 5D III body with everything the Epic Dragon does . I actually had a dream that seemed to real where this occur a couple months back...god I'm such a geek lol.

but Like Thomas mentioned above, a body to simply click your current camera (Red brain) into would be phenomenal!!! Much like what Apertus is "planning". It's not real until it's real unfortunately. Anyways, This ENG looking body would feature prores recording, rock solid timecode, audio knobs, meters, XLR's, the usual suspects. Now If this idea of putting a red brain from the lineup of Scarlet, Scarlet Dragon, Epic, Epic Dragon is not possible (sooo wish it was!) then I think creating a Red ENG body style camera would simply be an amazing option and would be the perfect compliment to the current lineup. I would say that it would at least need the Epic frame rates at least 4K RAW of course, and definitely prores 4K. Damn that would be soo bad ass.

Furthermore, I think we will see the current Epic owners move up to Dragon with some migrating to the Amira or other camera systems and vice versa. I don't think in its current state - even if it could shoot 8K, 20 stops of DR, and 100,000 clean ISO. would only get you so far with a HUGE portion of the industry. I'm not saying to go backwards by any means I just think there should be a "detour/ pit stop camera option or new design" with Scarlet Dragon or Epic Dragon dynamic range in an Amira body. It. Would. Be. Simply. AMAZING. I know it would outsell every camera out there once people started using it and finding its a one stop go and shoot kick ass 4k cinema or quick turnaround material. And once post houses started getting the prores files and people found that it was easy and simple to setup and go it would simply eat the market alive.

I think there is no shame at all in adopting what the other guys are giving us. We all know they wouldn't be giving us 4K and RAW if it wasn't for you!!!

 

[Nick Gardner]

Take the arri BL or the 435 as an example. Both cameras were great. They didn't try to do everything, they were just really really good at being cameras.

Nick

 

[Adam Johnson]

Striving to shrink the brain more with Dragon capabilities and developing an ENG style body for a brain or simply making it just one solid camera would be the best of all worlds

In other words, RED takes two different courses for two different horses

And as far as image goes if we had amazing lowlight abilities like the Canon C300 or 1D-C even if it were just in prores more would just be...WOW

 

[Peter Majtan]

I would definitely like to see the 617 come to life at some point in the next 2~3 years...
IMHO - RED should focus on sensor development as a top priority. There are many new exciting technologies coming up and you want RED to be at the helm - not in a tow - and sensor defies the camera...

As a second priority I would most definitely urge them to continue the smart mount developments. Not just the motion mount. I am talking about taking the common mounts like Canon and Nikon to the next level and allow remote control of electronic lenses (iris and focus) without the need for more HW. Think REDMOTE PRO with follow-focus ring and iris lever...

And finally I would leave displays alone, but projector is another story. If RED can deliver range of 4K projectors from user-friendly affordable (sub $5K) home-theatre model to a high-end colour-precise post solution - that would also go long way towards expanding the 4K environment - and therefore aiding more adoption of 4K+ acquisition...

But thats just me...

:sifone: Peter

EDIT: I would also like to see the burst mode allowing ever higher speeds at full res into limited RAM memory - also available as a pre-record. Actually if the temp memory was there for the burst mode - it should be the default for the pre-record function use as well (instead of using the media itself)...

 

[Patrick Tresch]

- New EVF with better optical path, with the possibility to optically magnify the picture for critical focus or for framing x0.8 to x1.3. Full HD.
- new set of tools for Focusing and confirming based on a cross action between face recognition, tracking of objects and sharpness...
- A dead silent camera. No spinning device like Fans and addressing the noise VS heat issue.
- If a fan has to be used, repositionning of the intake at the back of the camera and not pointing to the scene.
- Integrated ND's for run&gun. Clear, ND 0.9, ND 1.8
- Internal HF for Video/TC/sound for various recievers. Aka Arrow/Nyrius. Switch for On/Off.
- Repositionning of all I/O connectors to the right side. With 1 HDMI, 2 BNC HD-SDI (programm and super), 2x Lemo 12v, 1x D-tap (Yes...), 3 BNC TC/Synch.
- Repositionning of Main Power input. Not where the shoulder should be.
- REAL audio board with +48v phantom power (switch), Line and mic levels. 2x full size XLR, 1x 4pin XLR (stereo).
- Global shutter

This probably means a bigger camera but will adress a lot of issues (IMHO) Heat/connectors space/overall ergonomic and weight repartition when on shoulder. Not describing a F5 here.

I'm sure a lot of things could be done with modules that can be swapped out for 3D rigs or small factor reasons.

I'm not for a Prores Module as I'm sure that some production will go with the Prores files as master (or make it expensive ;-) )




... To be continued ...

 

[Peter Majtan]

- New Alexa/ENG style body with XLR's and knobs.
- Or even better, a body, which you can "click" your brain into.

Adding the PRO I/O and the PROXY module (once ready) will turn the DSMC into "ALEXA style" body with all the same functionality and then some...
IMHO - the modular system of DSMC is the right direction - everyone can build their own bodies (Loctite the modules if you must). I would not change a thing about the modular approach - if anything, work on miniaturising the modules and add more variety...

:sifone: Peter

 

[Carlos Reyes]

By all means don't fuck with the tiny brain. If wanted, a module that combined xlr inputs, a +1 module, and a decent shoulder pad would be welcomed, but don't turn it into an alexa. The Mietzler (or whatever the hell it's called), is too much and +1 is too little. Smart, small modules are where it's at. Honestly, I am fine with the epic and +1 module. That does everything I need done in a small package. The camera is really close to perfect. it wouldn't take much to get it all the way there, and it can fit in with how it's already designed.

Nick

This.