Red Epic-W auto black shade vs manual

[Boris Jansch]

The question I I'd like to know the answer to is, doe's the camera automatically choose the appropriate manual black shade for differing shutter speeds or frame rates or do you have to select the appropriate black shade yourself. I'm not talking about the auto black shade option because i notice a green tint with that particular method.

Appreciate any help.

 

[Glen David Miller]

When the camera Auto Black Shades isn't it just switching between exposure values and shutter rates and saving the data so when you switch, it chooses the shade generated earlier?

If not, what is it doing? And if it is, why would that make the image green?

-Glen

 

[Boris Jansch]

Yes that would make sense, I mean for it not to be green, but I've noticed the green tint in grading and seen some colour chart tests comparing manual and auto black shade, which clearly show the positive difference ie more neutral colour for manual black shading. That said, I've not tested it with the new firmware. As a Red newby I was just wondering whether the manual black shades had to be chosen by the operator or whether the camera choses the appropriate black shade based on camera settings?

 

[Anton Shavlik]

Like the name implies you have to select the manual blackshade yourself, and switching between them takes about 30 seconds. Best to make three for shutter speeds you often use, say 1/48 for most things, 1/4 for time lapse and 1/240 for highspeed.

 

[Glen David Miller]

"Like the name implies you have to select the manual blackshade yourself, and switching between them takes about 30 seconds. Best to make three for shutter speeds you often use, say 1/48 for most things, 1/4 for time lapse and 1/240 for highspeed."

Well, depending on the "computer" inside the brain, I could see this becoming an automatic thing with a little additional code. This is an over simplification, but, it's an array/table of data with with if/then commands looking up and applying data. That would be amazing. Technically, if the camera had enough static memory, the camera would black shade every possible combination on its first factory power-up and auto switch when the user changes settings.

Now, why the green? Black Shade should be Black Shade no matter "what" or who hits the button to run the process, right? Maybe as the sensor heat values change with ramping up or down changes the color sensitivity? If that's the case, are you (BORIS), using black shades that are matched or 'sorta' matched?

-Glen

 

[Anton Shavlik]

Auto blackshade does what you're saying, it takes much much longer to calibrate but it does switch within a few seconds of changing temperatures and shutter speeds. Manual and Auto should calibrate identically, there's no official word on why auto is making the shadows so much greener. That's something I'm sure they're working on fixing ASAP.

There's some other weird behavior in the blackshade on helium that I don't recall seeing on my epic dragon, where the shadows get crushed more or less depending on how bright other areas of the frame are. Epic-W is an improvement on Epic Dragon, but I think the CF weapon dragon cameras are red's best offering right now unless you need 8k, just because dragon in a weapon body has better dynamic range, rolling shutter, cmos smear and blackshading than helium...

 

[Glen David Miller]

Anton,

Oh - Cool. Okay. I mis-read what you were saying about Black Shading.

I've been using Reds since day one, and wish I could be more knowledgeable on this feature but I'm one of the folks still waiting on my number to be called for the Helium E-W upgrade! Hopefully I'll know soon! Until then, I'll keep firing the Dragon up with it's one black shade!

Now, reading about the differences makes me a bit worried from time to time, but, I feel like in about six months, the Helium code will fully kick in and make the 8K H-W equal.

Wait - The W- dragon has more dynamic range than the Helium Weapon? The 6K version? I keep wondering if the V V chip will be upgraded to Helium Silicon- if the process of making those is easier than the process of making V V out of Dragon Silicon.

-G

 

[Boris Jansch]

I've been using auto black shade until now, because I didn't know what the implications were for manual black shading. I'm coming from the C300 Mark ii and DSLRs before that, so it's a lot to learn but the image is soo nice!

 

[Jimmy Reynolds]

I've found that the auto adds about 20 seconds to my startup time. Definitely gonna stick to manual.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

For Helium you must do manual, it helps avoid the worst green shadows...

Graeme has said manual is recommended for Helium. Obviously other sensors are a different story. I found this to be true in my experience on my Helium. Gemini looks great with auto on the other hand.