RED Epic MX custom OLPF system mod?

[Filippo Giani]

Dear community,
I am a London-based filmmaker currently working on a project that will necessitate some IR sequences to be shot.
I own my own Epic-MX, and being the project entirely self-funded, I was counting on using it rather than having to rent kit out.
Now, as you all know, IR OLPFs are available for cameras that support the interchangeable OLPF system (DSMC2 and DSMC Dragons).
Needless to say, my camera doesn't, as Epic-MXs all came (and probably still come) with a factory-mounted OLPF that can't be removed by the user.
Now my question is: does anyone know of a way to modify my camera in such way that it would support the interchangeable OLPF system without having to upgrade to Dragon?
I tried to scout the internet for companies that could provide such service, and the closest thing I came across is a NJ-based company called Kolari Vision (https://kolarivision.com/).
I got in touch with their rep, and he told me that although he reckons installing an IR OLPF onto the sensor would be theoretically possible, it wouldn't be a user-friendly, interchangeable solution and I would thus need to send the camera back after wrap in order to have the filter professionally removed by a competent technician.
The next thing that I had in mind was trying to contact RED Europe at Pinewood or Panavision UK (who has done custom adaptors for me in the past) and ask them if they reckon they'd be able (and willing) to do it, but other than that I am pretty much stranded.
Have you encountered a similar issue in the past? How did you solve it (without upgrading to Dragon of course)? What would your opinion be on the matter?
Thank you very much for your time.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Perhaps try Kippertie.

http://kippertie.com/?post_type=product

 

[Glen Ryan]

Hi Filippo

We've used an Epic-X for several near-infrared projects in the past - Dragon or Weapon with Kipper Tie OLPF obviously the best bet if finances allow - but a couple of other options to at least consider with the Epic-X ...

If you are just planning to shoot time lapse with longer exposures you can shoot pretty usable near-IR on a standard Epic-X by just filtering the lens ... the standard OLPF it comes with has a relatively weak IR cut so at 1 second exposures you can get a fair bit of NIR in with a 720nm IR pass on the lens .... here's a short piece we shot a few years back using this technique - https://vimeo.com/60233275 Won't be any good for most 'normal' exposures, slo mo, wildlife at night etc .... but can work well in full sunlight even down to 1/30th sec at 800 iso.

If you want to shoot at shorter exposures in lower light the you'll need to remove the standard OLPF. RED used to offer this service in the US - we had our Epic-X modified by them - with a clear OLPF replacing the standard one. Not sure if they are still offering this now that interchangeable OLPFs make more sense but ask your bombsquad rep. Downside of this option is you'll need to send it in twice - for the mod and the restore. We still have our IR mod Epic-X now - never bothered getting it restored. We still shoot normal colour B-cam on it all the time with an IR cut on the lens.

The other slightly riskier option if you just need it for some shots is just remove the OLPF yourself. Shoot without it - then put it back in. RED totally don't recommend removing your OLPF without sending it back - but it can be done easily enough, trust me Depends on what you are planning to shoot and how long you need the modified cam for I guess - and if you are happy to risk your sensor gathering dust / dirt without the OLPF protecting it!

Cheers

Glen

silver dory productions

 

[Filippo Giani]

Perhaps try Kippertie.

Hey Bob, thank you for your reply. I was looking at Kippertie some time ago and I had the impression that their technology also was only supported by Dragon and DSMC2 systems. Or am I mistaken? It would be great if I were.

 

[Filippo Giani]

Hi Filippo

We've used an Epic-X for several near-infrared projects in the past - Dragon or Weapon with Kipper Tie OLPF obviously the best bet if finances allow - but a couple of other options to at least consider with the Epic-X ...

If you are just planning to shoot time lapse with longer exposures you can shoot pretty usable near-IR on a standard Epic-X by just filtering the lens ... the standard OLPF it comes with has a relatively weak IR cut so at 1 second exposures you can get a fair bit of NIR in with a 720nm IR pass on the lens .... here's a short piece we shot a few years back using this technique - https://vimeo.com/60233275 Won't be any good for most 'normal' exposures, slo mo, wildlife at night etc .... but can work well in full sunlight even down to 1/30th sec at 800 iso.

If you want to shoot at shorter exposures in lower light the you'll need to remove the standard OLPF. RED used to offer this service in the US - we had our Epic-X modified by them - with a clear OLPF replacing the standard one. Not sure if they are still offering this now that interchangeable OLPFs make more sense but ask your bombsquad rep. Downside of this option is you'll need to send it in twice - for the mod and the restore. We still have our IR mod Epic-X now - never bothered getting it restored. We still shoot normal colour B-cam on it all the time with an IR cut on the lens.

The other slightly riskier option if you just need it for some shots is just remove the OLPF yourself. Shoot without it - then put it back in. RED totally don't recommend removing your OLPF without sending it back - but it can be done easily enough, trust me Depends on what you are planning to shoot and how long you need the modified cam for I guess - and if you are happy to risk your sensor gathering dust / dirt without the OLPF protecting it!

Cheers

Glen

silver dory productions

Hey Glen,

thank you very much for your reply. I had a look at the link you sent me, and the result is undeniably gorgeous. Really stunning stuff, exactly the kind of thing I'm after (also really love the seppia tint).
However, I was planning on shooting "real-time" action at 25fps, 1/50 shutter, so long exposures won't do it in my specific case.
I will definitely try to get in touch with RED and see if the London headquarters provide a similar service to the one you mentioned.
Alternatively, removing the OLPF myself sounds like an interesting option. Do you reckon that once the factory-mounted OLPF is removed, it would be possible to (rather precariously, of course) install a Kippertie OLPF (in a makeshift sort of manner) in order to still protect the sensor from dust whilst I'm using the camera for this project (which will be entirely shot in IR, for a period of 5 days + a period of testing beforehand)?
Thank you again for your reply, let me know your thoughts.

Filippo

 

[Glen Ryan]

Hi Filippo

Pretty sure there is no way you can fit a current OLPF into an EPIC-X ... so if you take out the current OLPF you will need to wing it with nothing in front of the sensor. People have certainly done this in the past for short periods - pretty sure John Marchant from KIpper Tie posted footage done like this back in the day....

If you're shooting for 5 days plus testing then this probably won't fly as a viable option.

We specialise in full-spectum / near-IR photography and film making - and get asked about the best way to do these kind of projects a lot. We switched from standard RED Epic-X to an IR mod in 2013 and made the feature length near-IR piece BRINDABELLAS over a couple of years after that - https://silverdory.com/brindabellas. So have run into almost every issue you can have with IR mods. We now still use the mod alongside Kipper Tie OLPFs on a Dragon.

These days we still often get enquiries to hire our IR mod Epic (and sometimes our Dragon with OLPFs). In almost every case the best - and most cost effective - option is to just hire a Dragon/Weapon and use interchangeable OLPFs. Getting a mod on an old camera - if even possible now - will still have the cost of the mod + transport etc (I think it was $500 USD each way in 2013 when we got ours done). If you end up with dust or oil spot issues on the mod - which can happen with all IR conversions - then you might have issues during the shoot. If you have interchangeable OLPFs then much easier to remove and clean them - plus you can swap between full-spectrum and actual near-IR OLPFs which can be important in getting the best out of your range of lenses - as some lenses will have IR hotspots with lens filtering. So I realise the budget might not allow for it but if you can get your hands on at least a Dragon then you will inevitably find the NIR filming process a lot smoother.

Cheers

Glen

 

[Tyler Besh]

Interesting thought. Is the filter size in the OLPF plastic builds the same size as the standard one in the Epic MX? From the looks of it, seems so. If so, what if you were to break open the plastic housing of, say, the skin tone OLPF and take the filter out and put it in front of the MX (this is me thinking out loud because I want to try it now).