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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED Dragon vs. 65mm film...

It's normal to use log20 when describing DR in digital photography. Then 120dB corresponds to 20 stops and 13 stops is 78dB.
But this is all theory, maybe they "feel" they need 10dB for roll-off and get out of the shadows, so they claim 13 usable stops out of a measured 88dB signal?
If the RAW file is in a native gamma (Linear state) then you need at least 1 bit for each stop, some people including myself feel that last shadow stop beeing described by only 1 level isn't very usefull. So I would say based on what I see that you need 2 bits more than the number of usefull stops you have.
If they do some math trickery getting out of linear and into log you could achieve more stops than bits. BUT the sensor characteristics is Linear for all silicon, and either some funky analog amplification or using a high bit A/D converter and digitally getting out of linear prior to writing the RAW file is needed.
It seems like the latter is in use today as many now claim more stops than the bits available.
MHO.
 
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I am really confused. Article mentions:
- Global shutter. I believe that it will give much more noise and a lot less DR than rolling shutter but artile than says that IMAX camera will have
- 120 db of DR and that 88db is 13 stops. I really am not sure where did they get these numbers and what do they mean (explanation, anybody?) but Wiki doesn't help and only make things worse because numbers totally don't match http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range
- 12 bit raw at 2K. Correct me if I am wrong but is there a point of wide dynamic range if sensor records at just 12 bit raw?
-So is it 2K or 4K? Article says that sensor is 2K but "It records to a SSD on board in DNxHD, ProRes and likely raw though details are still shrouded in secrecy – it will likely be 4k". Wait, what?

http://cinefii.com/panavisions-new-alexa-killer-weve-got-the-early-details/ here is another source

I'm not sure the first article got the facts right but at least the pictures show it is more than just rumor. I thought it was relevant because we are talking RED 35mm = Film 65mm in this thread. What I'm waiting to hear is will this be 5 or 15 perf 70mm
 
Anything apart from sony f55 (not available yet) is just R&D. Panavision will never turn these cameras into mass production. it will be 2-3-4 maybe 5 cameras at max for 10K-15K day rental price :) Extremely niche product for a few enthusiasts, who don't care how much their producer spend on equipment rental. But producers do care about how much they spend on camera/gears rental. All these cameras becomes just R&D artefacts in the museum of lost battle for beyond HD era. And winner is RED.
 
I think your right about that.
 

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I have a 70mm section of a release print of 2001 that hangs on my wall (my shrine/goal), I've noticed the epic monochrome has less grain then this 70mm film. So i'd say epic monochrome is better quality then release prints of 70mm, maybe not showprints though (but very few people have ever watched show prints of 70mm). I'd think dragon would have about the same amount of grain/resolution as the epic monochrome, since no bayer pattern is used on the monochrome.
 
its been a while soo...
2cpydly.jpg
 
Roger... I'll take that as an insult. The names Jarred quoted are real. They will be posting their opinions... not me.

See you in 2014.

BTW... 76 shots in Star Trek were shot on EPIC MX and cut seamlessly with 65mm film. You were saying?

Jim

We all know Jim likes making bold claims for markerting / hype reasons. :-)

I haven't seen any sensor come even close to beating 35mm in terms of image quality, skin tones, colors and so on.
 
Imagine we are releasing now a sensor that is as good in every way as 65mm film. It is called Dragon.

Jim

VERY COOL. Can you imagine how insane it's going to be if you guys ever release a 65mm sensor? OMG!!!
 
fantastic to see how much passion Jim and the boys still put into their work. But then again, if you want to be good at something,
you damn well better give it all you got... and then some!:)

65mm quality and data being offloaded over usb3, through a mac book pro "LAB".... unlimited stock and processing.... what a crazy RED world - and many people here seem to don't even know it.
 
Congratulations!
This is even better than what we thought.
Going to be incredible to see the first Imax movies filmed in Space or in the ocean depth. Infact looking forward to shooting them myself at a point :)
Best
/Andreas
 
RED has spoiled the world with EPIC MX - but mark my words, Dragon will redefine the new standard of sensor technology. Hang on tight. :-)

BTW, if you are looking to shoot on Dragon, PM me, as we hope to be pretty early in line.
 
...if you want to be good at something, you damn well better give it all you got... and then some!:)

65mm quality and data being offloaded over usb3, through a mac book pro "LAB".... unlimited stock and processing.... what a crazy RED world - and many people here seem to don't even know it.

Damn right! That's what I keep yelling to everyone, too. Individuals have the gall to complain about unlimited, 35mm stock and processing. Hahaha. People are ridiculous; or maybe they just quickly forget where we're coming from. Or maybe they're so new to the scene, they don't completely get where we're coming from.

It's like complaining about a space elevator, when everyone else is flying kites at Kitty Hawk.

Just silly nonsense.
 
too much marketing hype going on. I think Dragon specs sound very great but I'd love to see the pictures and footages from Dragon sensor... picture woth more than thousand words
 
Roger, your 'View Forum Posts' list doesn't read like constructive contribution. There's a big space between antipathy and fandom; plenty of intelligent posters here manage to play in that zone.
 
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