Steve Harryman
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Heck of a post I just got from Gibby (from my post out on DVInfo) responding to the fears people have given me--telling me all CMOS sensors (including RED) at the long telephoto end will result in unusable images due to extreme wobble (jello-vision). Just wanted to share this with anyone else interested in using long Nikons like myself. There is hope for me again to go with Red One or Scarlet. Here it is:
Steve HarrymanMarch 10th, 2009, 12:32 AM
Hey Gibby,
I'm interested in how well Red handles wildlife--specifically what FOV/Mag.Ratio are you getting with your Nikon telephotos? 2x if cropped? Most important question----with the Red CMOS sensor and extreme telephoto, how bad is the CMOS wobble. It's the only thing holding me back until I hear from someone experienced like you who actually has experience with shooting wildlife on Red. Barry Green's comments seem right on the mark regarding that I will experience bad wobble with any CMOS camera (Red included) at high magnification, i.e. using a long Nikon/Canon telephoto. Thanks.
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Steve GibbyMarch 11th, 2009, 05:50 PM
I shoot a lot of other genres than nature, but yes, I have shot a lot of long lens nature footage with my three RED One cameras over the 18 months I've owned them now.
Unless I'm tracking fast motion, and need to overcrank, I shoot nature subjects with RED in 4K HD/23.98 and 29.97/RC36. For overcrank subjects where I'll need slow motion in the end product, I've had very good results in 3k/48fps over a 23.98 project frame rate/RC36/shutter 105sec - glass smooth slo-mo playback. I rarely shoot 2k on RED, but when tracking fast motion animals and sports figures/objects in 2k, I've had good results with 120fps over a 23.98 project frame rate/RC36/shutter 196sec - again, glass smooth slo-mo playback.
All my Nikon lenses cover FF35, so on the S35 sensor of RED, a S35 portion of the center of the lenses is being framed. As for field of view, if you're shooting 3k or 2k on RED, those are cropped portions from the sensor, so the FOV is commensurately more narrow the more you crop from the sensor. Keep in mind, every millimeter size of a lens remains the same - in other words, a 300mm lens is always a 300mm lens, no matter what sized sensor you place it in front of. But the size/amount of sensor crop does determine the FOV.
CMOS wobble when using long telephotos on RED One? If that's a referral to the early-on, much talked about rolling shutter issue, rest assured that hasn't been an issue with RED since early on - Build 16 addressed that with optimization of refresh speed, and the build I'm currently using - Build 17, 3:4:1 is even better. For over 18 months now, with multiple REDs, I've regularly shot footage of some of the fastest moving objects in the natural and sports worlds, with long lenses, and guess what - no rolling shutter or "CMOS wobble" issues at all.
Long lenses in high windy situations, especially cross winds, can naturally have some shake to the image if you don't do something to block the wind - but that has nothing to do with "CMOS wobble" - it's just the wind.
Most of Spring and Summer of last year I worked in Alaska as one of the Executive Producers and also one of the cinematographers for a nature documentary which will be airing nationally on National Geographic Channel on 3/21 - titled "Icy Killers". Cameras used were multiple REDs (in water and long lens on land), and Sony HDC1500 (in CineFlex on helicopters and on boats). Trust me, we had no "CMOS wobble" problems with the long lens RED footage. In the edit suite that we used to view and post footage, we routinely used a Sony SXRD 4k projector and projected the RED footage in 4k onto a 24' screen - again no "CMOS wobble" - just clean, grainless, smooth footage.
Huge amounts of RED long lens nature and sports footage shot by myself and associates is represented by Mammoth HD and other stock footage houses - again with no issues with "CMOS wobble" or rolling shutter artifacts. Those stock houses will verify that, along with the list of feature, tV program, and business clients who have licensed the footage. Almost all of that long lens RED footage was shot on RED using Nikon and Canon lenses, with excellent results, and no artifacts.
Some of my RED 4k, Canon FD 150-600 zoom wildlife footage was recently transferred to IMAX on a test for studio executives - and stunned them for resolution, contrast, and lack of artifacts of any kind.
I hope all the above relieves any concerns you may have about using Nikon and Canon long lenses on RED One. They work extremely well on RED - and the results are excellent.
As I write this, I'm working in Manila, Philippines as the DP and center stage shoulder held cinematographer for a 10 RED camera production covering the band Journey in concert. We're shooting 4k HD, and several of the REDs are using very long lenses, including a mixture of Nikon and Angenieux lenses.
Hope the above helps you...
Steve HarrymanMarch 10th, 2009, 12:32 AM
Hey Gibby,
I'm interested in how well Red handles wildlife--specifically what FOV/Mag.Ratio are you getting with your Nikon telephotos? 2x if cropped? Most important question----with the Red CMOS sensor and extreme telephoto, how bad is the CMOS wobble. It's the only thing holding me back until I hear from someone experienced like you who actually has experience with shooting wildlife on Red. Barry Green's comments seem right on the mark regarding that I will experience bad wobble with any CMOS camera (Red included) at high magnification, i.e. using a long Nikon/Canon telephoto. Thanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve GibbyMarch 11th, 2009, 05:50 PM
I shoot a lot of other genres than nature, but yes, I have shot a lot of long lens nature footage with my three RED One cameras over the 18 months I've owned them now.
Unless I'm tracking fast motion, and need to overcrank, I shoot nature subjects with RED in 4K HD/23.98 and 29.97/RC36. For overcrank subjects where I'll need slow motion in the end product, I've had very good results in 3k/48fps over a 23.98 project frame rate/RC36/shutter 105sec - glass smooth slo-mo playback. I rarely shoot 2k on RED, but when tracking fast motion animals and sports figures/objects in 2k, I've had good results with 120fps over a 23.98 project frame rate/RC36/shutter 196sec - again, glass smooth slo-mo playback.
All my Nikon lenses cover FF35, so on the S35 sensor of RED, a S35 portion of the center of the lenses is being framed. As for field of view, if you're shooting 3k or 2k on RED, those are cropped portions from the sensor, so the FOV is commensurately more narrow the more you crop from the sensor. Keep in mind, every millimeter size of a lens remains the same - in other words, a 300mm lens is always a 300mm lens, no matter what sized sensor you place it in front of. But the size/amount of sensor crop does determine the FOV.
CMOS wobble when using long telephotos on RED One? If that's a referral to the early-on, much talked about rolling shutter issue, rest assured that hasn't been an issue with RED since early on - Build 16 addressed that with optimization of refresh speed, and the build I'm currently using - Build 17, 3:4:1 is even better. For over 18 months now, with multiple REDs, I've regularly shot footage of some of the fastest moving objects in the natural and sports worlds, with long lenses, and guess what - no rolling shutter or "CMOS wobble" issues at all.
Long lenses in high windy situations, especially cross winds, can naturally have some shake to the image if you don't do something to block the wind - but that has nothing to do with "CMOS wobble" - it's just the wind.
Most of Spring and Summer of last year I worked in Alaska as one of the Executive Producers and also one of the cinematographers for a nature documentary which will be airing nationally on National Geographic Channel on 3/21 - titled "Icy Killers". Cameras used were multiple REDs (in water and long lens on land), and Sony HDC1500 (in CineFlex on helicopters and on boats). Trust me, we had no "CMOS wobble" problems with the long lens RED footage. In the edit suite that we used to view and post footage, we routinely used a Sony SXRD 4k projector and projected the RED footage in 4k onto a 24' screen - again no "CMOS wobble" - just clean, grainless, smooth footage.
Huge amounts of RED long lens nature and sports footage shot by myself and associates is represented by Mammoth HD and other stock footage houses - again with no issues with "CMOS wobble" or rolling shutter artifacts. Those stock houses will verify that, along with the list of feature, tV program, and business clients who have licensed the footage. Almost all of that long lens RED footage was shot on RED using Nikon and Canon lenses, with excellent results, and no artifacts.
Some of my RED 4k, Canon FD 150-600 zoom wildlife footage was recently transferred to IMAX on a test for studio executives - and stunned them for resolution, contrast, and lack of artifacts of any kind.
I hope all the above relieves any concerns you may have about using Nikon and Canon long lenses on RED One. They work extremely well on RED - and the results are excellent.
As I write this, I'm working in Manila, Philippines as the DP and center stage shoulder held cinematographer for a 10 RED camera production covering the band Journey in concert. We're shooting 4k HD, and several of the REDs are using very long lenses, including a mixture of Nikon and Angenieux lenses.
Hope the above helps you...