Red Certified user/DIT

[David Morgan]

I did some searching and there was only one thread that dealt with this idea from 2007. So I thought I'd ask again, if only because I saw a website claiming to have Red Certified operators/DIT.

Is there a program like this in the works? Could we really get a certification from Red to say we've been trained to use the camera?

I'd personally like to see a three tiered system. The first would be all about the basic operation of the camera; the 2nd could be workflows both as a DIT and/or post (maybe with specilization in Avid/FCP/Crimson...whatever); and the 3rd tier would be an over all specalist, maybe a service tech who works for Red.

Anything like this out there?

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

a bad dit will not get a second job...isnt that enough?

 

[John DeBoer]

But who wants to be the first producer to hire them?

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

But who wants to be the first producer to hire them?

the one who pays 100 dollars for grips

 

[Michael Thornton]

a bad dit will not get a second job...isnt that enough?

I am sorry but that is not true if he own a camera.

There are always people who think cheaper with free DIT is a good idea.

It's suck but they are out there.

Tek

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I am sorry but that is not true if he own a camera.

There are always people who think cheaper with free DIT is a good idea.

It's suck but they are out there.

Tek

ok, this is true.
but how many have a drivers licence and can really drive?
what should the test be?
knowlegde battle with graeme? want to see the one who has the balls....hehe

 

[Manuel Wenger]

Kaya, i totally agree with you !
Value for money, that´s the key.
A certificate means nothing, experience is the key here.

 

[James Press]

Good suggestion Chaos. I'm not aware of any official certification at this time. FWIW FxPhd are running a DIT course this semester (enrollments are now open): http://www.fxphd.com/courseInfo.php#DIT201

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think certification would be a move in the wrong direction. I fight with certifications all the time in relation to my various business ventures. Whether it's manufacturer certification for low-voltage residential or commercial AV wiring or Microsoft MCSE bullshit or whatnot..

Being able to use the camera is the easy part. It's having the talent and experience to know what to point the camera at that matters. No certification course or test is going to teach or guaranty that. As far as DIT positions go... A good DIT will stay current with data workflow issues and available tech for on-set data management, etc.. They will be perfectly capable of moving their butt in a hurry when required. Not only do they need to know the data workflow and ins and outs of the camera well enough to pass some certification test (the easy part), but they must be able to draw upon this knowledge at a moments notice and choose an appropriate course of action when situations come up on set. A good DIT will have a deep knowledge base to draw on, far deeper than any certification program will ever test for certify. Any monkey can copy files. being a DIT is about support and being there to creatively adapt to various shooting situations and solve IT problems relating to the camera and workflow.

And quite frankly, I've met some high school kids that are more than capable of doing all this with 100% reliability and I've met some "professional DITs" who, well.. I'm just not going to go there.

Another reason a certification program would be a bad idea is simple logistics. Even those who may want to have the certification may not be able to, due to global travel considerations, scheduling, finances, etc.. Thus creating artificial segregation within the industry. Or bypass all of that and make the certification dirt cheap and available online, then suddenly everyone is certified and once again, it means nothing.

 

[michael zaletel]

I agree with Jeff. There are all kinds of skills related to the DIT position that would be outside the scope of Red certification. For example, typing speed, photoshop skills, knowledge and experience with waveform monitors and vectorscopes, color grading skills, file management skills, system optimization skills and tons of other things that would set one DIT apart from another in terms of speed, reliability, usefulness on set and etc. It may seem funny, but typing speed (and mastery of keyboard commands) alone can make a huge difference in productivity over an 8-hour day and someone that knows how to use special utitlities to recover damaged files could save the day vs. someone who knows everything about RedCine.

It literally takes years to become an expert at every area of the computer and related processes necessary to be an efficient, helpful and productive DIT on set when things are moving fast. Sure you could teach and certify the "Red" Specific skills but that could be very misleading without evaluating all the related skills involved.

-shooter

 

[David Morgan]

As far as DIT positions go... A good DIT will stay current with data workflow issues and available tech for on-set data management, etc.. They will be perfectly capable of moving their butt in a hurry when required. Not only do they need to know the data workflow and ins and outs of the camera well enough to pass some certification test (the easy part), but they must be able to draw upon this knowledge at a moments notice and choose an appropriate course of action when situations come up on set. A good DIT will have a deep knowledge base to draw on, far deeper than any certification program will ever test for certify. Any monkey can copy files. being a DIT is about support and being there to creatively adapt to various shooting situations and solve IT problems relating to the camera and workflow.

There are all kinds of skills related to the DIT position that would be outside the scope of Red certification. For example, typing speed, photoshop skills, knowledge and experience with waveform monitors and vectorscopes, color grading skills, file management skills, system optimization skills and tons of other things that would set one DIT apart from another in terms of speed, reliability, usefulness on set and etc. It may seem funny, but typing speed (and mastery of keyboard commands) alone can make a huge difference in productivity over an 8-hour day and someone that knows how to use special utitlities to recover damaged files could save the day vs. someone who knows everything about RedCine.
-shooter

Ok...so then my question is this: how do I, as a soon to be be new owner of a Red One, even start to learn these skills when, as I've been on the forum for a few months (at least an hour a day, reading what I can here) I've only just now seen a clear, simple idea of some of the duties of a DIT? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that someone laid it out, but I'm strugling to learn what I need to know to use my camera to the fullest, run a new company, work a "real" job so I have health care for me and my family, and teach the others who are working with me how to use my equipment. I'd really like to see a clearer expectation for people who may not be working in the industry YET, but are working hard to be able to eventually provide such professional services. That's what I see a cert program helping with, if nothing else. I agree they are not the end all be all of yardsticks for experience, drive, and skill, but its a step in the right direction for a lot of people who need someplace to start.

 

[John Logan]

Slightly off-topic, I apologize, but what is a "real" DIT's day rate? Not what people are willing to do it for, but the actual Union scale day rate.

Anyone know? Much appreciated.

 

[Andrew Martin]

Slightly off-topic, I apologize, but what is a "real" DIT's day rate? Not what people are willing to do it for, but the actual Union scale day rate.

Anyone know? Much appreciated.

Its widely listed as £250 over here in the UK for a DIT for a 10hr day so with the exchange rate as of today about $450 -$500. But that's here in the UK, don't know about the States.

Andrew.

 

[michael zaletel]

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that someone laid it out, but I'm strugling to learn what I need to know to use my camera to the fullest, run a new company, work a "real" job so I have health care for me and my family, and teach the others who are working with me how to use my equipment. I'd really like to see a clearer expectation for people who may not be working in the industry YET, but are working hard to be able to eventually provide such professional services. That's what I see a cert program helping with, if nothing else. I agree they are not the end all be all of yardsticks for experience, drive, and skill, but its a step in the right direction for a lot of people who need someplace to start.

Okay....you have a great attitude and I can sympathize with your chicken-before-the-egg scenario.

Here's my advice:

You are going to have jump in and learn how to swim literally overnight. It is possible but it will be grueling. (Think Navy Seals training). You'll need to spend every moment you have experimenting and learning (1 hour a day on RedUser won't cut it). You aren't going to skip 3 years of the school of hard knocks by watching some classes on DVD or reading user posts an hour a day.

Tell us how much time you have to dedicate to your "emergency DIT training program" and if that's sufficient, I'm sure we'll all pitch in with advice on how you can spend that time wisely to learn and gain experience quickly. In 20 years of fielding questions like this one, I have had many people tell me they are willing to do whatever it takes to take a shortcut, but only 1 or 2 have ever really followed through with it. If you're one of the few, you can pull it off but it will be painful, frustrating and exhausting.

Most of it will involve downloading all the R3D files you can get your hands on and just "doing stuff" with them until everything that can be done with an R3D file becomes 2nd nature and reading, reading, reading, reading and reading. Since most people don't like to read, you can actually get a jump on people that have been doing this for years by reading all the stuff they were to lazy to pick up and read cause they thought they already knew everything in the books. They didn't by the way.

-shooter

 

[Nir Shelter]

A certificate program would have to be cross continental, as mentioned before. If you have it only in the U.S (lets be honest here most likely it will be first up only in the U.S) DITs in other countries will struggle if not find it impossible to get to the course. If a certificate program exists and you can't tell clients that you are a certified DIT you'll have much less chance of getting jobs... I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA!!!

I know countless DP, camera operators and editors that didn't study a day in their lives in the field they work in. Alternatively I know countless that did and gained very little from it.

I was working on a shoot on the week end where we filmed a huge explosion scene waaaaaaay out in the middle of no where. We had 2 Red1s and a 35mm camera on set the sun was setting and we where loosing light fast. The DP wanted to wait just for the right amount of light to get the most out of the fire ball and the most detail on the background before arming the detonators. Clock was ticking and I had to run between each of the cameras and check that all settings were correct and all media working. Wouldn't you know it one of our support crew pulls out a surprise 3rd Red1 the DP puts it on set to film the explosion as well. I quickly wrangled up a drive and adjusted the camera settings. We are all ready and set to go but the camera would not record to the drive. I had to quickly switch drives around and use a CF in the new camera. Being an expensive and perfectly timed shot I couldn't rely on luck and quickly shot a test shot ran back to my data setup down loaded and tested the footage once I approved. Ran back put the Cf in ran a last minute check on all cameras in case any body touched them during my test looking away from set. The DP then wanted to shoot each camera at a different frame rate I knew exactly which resolution and RC was needed for each frame rate. As I set the menus on one camera shouted out to the AC the settings for the other cameras as well as instructions of how to navigate between the menu options. Advised the DP and directors about the different aspect ratios they where using and the framing changes as per resolution change for each camera. Ran between each camera to ensure correct and no invalid settings where used. Not to mentioned filling in camera sheets for each camera. Gave the OK and BOOM!!!!! A spectacular explosion scene shot beautifully.
Then secured a backup of all the data onto a raid system.

All the above was done during the setup for the scene hardly if any delay for the shoot from the data department (being me that is...). No certificate or course could have prepared me for that.

It is the experience that counts if you manage to instill in your client the confidence that you will deliver what they expect and then some no matter what. You'll get another job from them and a recommendation to their friends.

P.S
500AD a day is approximately the going rate here in Australia.

 

[David Morgan]

Shooter, I sent you a pm.

 

[Noah Kadner]

Training schools, classes, seminars etc are a much better concept than a certification program. That's like a big corporate thingy that sort of goes against the rebel flavor that RED stands for anyway. Getting rehired is pretty much the best certification there is. If you're not good at the job you won't get rehired- way better than a scrap of diploma paper.

Noah

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

What Noah said.

David, I think what you need to evaluate is your current skill set and what you intend to do with the camera and what services you wish to offer. This is just my opinion of what a DIT should be, but I look for someone who has a solid IT foundation and can think on their feet. That's really about it, no way of knowing just how good they are until the time comes to test their skills on the job.

If you wish to offer DIT services, you will need to be intimately familiar with the RED One and all the common accessories for it.

Beyond that, there are certain things that (IMO) a DIT must know or be able to do. Keep in mind that all jobs will not require these abilities, but a "qualified" DIT should be capable. These skills are:

* Computer systems diagnostic / repair. As a simplistic example -- If your Macbook Pro goes down in the field, you need to be able to deal with the situation and provide an alternative solution or repair the computer. You need to be able to deal with hard drive crashes, faulty hardware, etc..

* Network specialist.

* Can make or provide necessary cables on the fly... There's suddenly a need for a 55ft SDI cable and there's only a 20ft cable in the RED kit.

* Familiarity with all RED software tools on both PC and Mac. Understanding of how to get R3D data onto the proper media and/or into the proper format for moving beyond the shoot.

Other skills that can save the day, but often hard to find at a "DIT rate" are:

* Programming / scripting skills -- C / C++ / Objective-C / Python / Pearl / Java / XML, etc..

* Editing / Coloring / creative skills

* Experience to be a competent AC, Gaffer, etc..

 

[David Morgan]

If you're not good at the job you won't get rehired- way better than a scrap of diploma paper.
Noah

Ok then...how do you get good when none of this is offered anywhere near you? I guess that's the big issue for me. I have only the barest grip on what a DIT needs to be able to do, and I'm basically down to teaching myself EVERYTHING. All I have going for me is a driving need to do this and do it right, but that's a hell of starting point when we're talking about bleeding edge tech.

 

[David Morgan]

What Noah said.

Keep in mind that all jobs will not require these abilities, but a "qualified" DIT should be capable. These skills are:

* Computer systems diagnostic / repair. As a simplistic example -- If your Macbook Pro goes down in the field, you need to be able to deal with the situation and provide an alternative solution or repair the computer. You need to be able to deal with hard drive crashes, faulty hardware, etc..

* Network specialist.

* Can make or provide necessary cables on the fly... There's suddenly a need for a 55ft SDI cable and there's only a 20ft cable in the RED kit.

* Familiarity with all RED software tools on both PC and Mac. Understanding of how to get R3D data onto the proper media and/or into the proper format for moving beyond the shoot.

Other skills that can save the day, but often hard to find at a "DIT rate" are:

* Programming / scripting skills -- C / C++ / Objective-C / Python / Pearl / Java / XML, etc..

* Editing / Coloring / creative skills

* Experience to be a competent AC, Gaffer, etc..

Thanks Jeff....this is extremely enlightening, and what I've been trying to figure out for a while now.