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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red camera moves for small crews - recommended slider, tram, small dolly, jib?

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Bruce Allen

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EDIT: Wow, thank you everyone for all the great advice

This is one of those "hey, can you help me do my research for me" threads ;) Apologies in advance! But hey, maybe you guys are thinking about this stuff too...

I'm planning a no-budget short film shoot and would love Redusers' advice... excluding handheld, what kit are you guys finding works well with Red to move the camera?

I'm looking for something that doesn't slow down the shoot as much as a normal dolly shot and which is very easy to transport. Preferably which can be carried (!). I want something I can take to weird locations with me, put on the plane, carry on public transport in Tokyo, etc.

I am used to smooth dolly and jib moves. I love working with a Technocrane, Panther dolly, etc. But now I don't need moves that ambitious - just want to be able to add interest to shots with a minimal crew without slowing everything down. I can stabilize out some wobble in post too.

So far, I'm looking at things like:

TRAM
CamTram: probably very smooth, but a bit on the high end of our budget, and setting up that ladder, getting it level, etc might take time?

SLIDER
TheSlider: looks easier to move from setup to setup than a CamTram. But very expensive.

IndiSlider: cheap, some people love it but some people seem to think it takes a while to set up.

LIGHTWEIGHT DOLLY
digidolly: damn lightweight, but no curved track - and has anyone tried it with Red and found how wobbly it is?

hollywood microdolly: even more lightweight, has curved track, can be modified to go on ladders, but really not sure of its smoothness...

SOME KIND OF HYBRID DOLLY - SLIDER THING
KeyWest CamCat dolly: supposedly can be used for short moves like a dolly or slider. Includes spirit level which seems like a nice touch.

TRADITIONAL DOLLY
Key West Magic dolly: supposedly nice. Needs track, I guess (pneumatic tires look a tad small?) Weighs 44lbs without track.

Matthews briefcase dolly: looks more "dolly-like", but wheels look frikkin' tiny (no rolling on the floor of a location), have to carry track

Egripment Startrack or Egripment Dinky Dolly with pneumatic wheels: just give up and find locations with relatively even floors...

JIB
Seven Jib: Evin covered that one pretty thoroughly in his review. Seems good except for lack of adjustable drag.

VanceJib: now they upped the max weight it can carry, it's an option...

PortaJib Traveller: more expensive... looks nice though! Anyone used it?

Do you want me to post links to all the products? I don't want to upset any nice sponsors by posting to competing products.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
The CamTram-2 (update of the original CamTram) is a very versatile tool and is quick & easy to set up. A ladder is often shown as a shooting platform because they can be rented anywhere and are cheap, but you can use just about anything as a dolly platform. A board of wood, some PVC tubing, a couple of 2x4s, some plumbing supplies, even a countertop. The CamTram-2 isn't for everything, but it works great and is very quick & easy to use.

The Porta-Jib line is a very good one in all their products. For RED I'd suggest the standard Porta-Jib instead of the Traveller for weight capacity. I used to own my own and it added so much to every shoot. Again, very easy to use and certainly by far the most robust of the units you listed. The Vance could never support a RED -- at least not well enough to do a smooth shot.

Note: I work for Abel and we rent & sell these particular products, but we also represent a lot of things and I'm not talking about them. These opinions are my own as someone who has owned and used this gear on real paying jobs.

Please remember that in the end none of these devices will eliminate the value of a real dolly. I don't think you should bother with the "traditional" units you described as I find them somewhat limited. If you're going to go with something like that, buy a classic doorway dolly or step up to something like the Premier Studio PD-1 dolly. That's a product we don't represent but I personally think is a good value for the money.
 
Thanks for the advice, you guys are great.

Yeah, I was afraid those lightweight jibs wouldn't work. And even if they were borderline I wouldn't want to risk it with someone's Red.

Our alternative is shooting on an EX3 - then the whole portability thing becomes a lot easier and I have lightweight jib options of course... but I'd be betraying the community ;)

BTW, Mitch I look forward very much to renting from you guys at some point. Renting the CamTram from Abel is probably out of our budget (I'm away from LA for 2 weeks) but next time I shoot something closer to home...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce Allen said:
Matthews briefcase dolly: looks more "dolly-like", but wheels look frikkin' tiny (no rolling on the floor of a location), have to carry track

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

FYI - Mathews Briefcase dolly comes with 2 sets of wheels. One for rolling on track and one set for rolling on floor.
 
Bruce Allen said:
BTW, Mitch I look forward very much to renting from you guys at some point. Renting the CamTram from Abel is probably out of our budget (I'm away from LA for 2 weeks) but next time I shoot something closer to home...
Click to expand...

Hey Bruce,

I think we rent the CamTram out for only $75/day and two weeks would be a 6-day rental, so it's not so bad. The sucker travels in a small Storm case and weighs about 35lbs. in the case so it's a pretty easy thing to take wherever you go.
 
I like my Porta-Jib

I like my Porta-Jib

I use a Porta-Jib standard with the 36" extension. I takes a little work to set up (well in the middle of river anyway) but is extremely well built and very durable.

1402_1219984754.jpg



1402_1219984876.jpg
 
I've used the Hollywood dolly and been blown away by how much you get from how little/light/easy it is. As far as stability, that depends on the surface underneath it. We got some excellent results on decent concrete and carpet floors--which should be expected...but also got some great shots out in the middle of the forest, leveling the rails with sticks and pine needles. This was with camera, battery, drive, lcd, arri mattebox, s4... ie. medium weight rig.

Of course, how big a move you intend and how tight your shots will be will influence your choices too.

This will be one of my next purchases though--extremely light, super fast set up and very usable results for that space between tiny crew/almost run and gun and larger crew/more money for better rental...

i haven't tried Hollywood's jib but am extremely interested...
 
GLEN TRACY said:
I use a Porta-Jib standard with the 36" extension. I takes a little work to set up (well in the middle of river anyway) but is extremely well built and very durable.
Click to expand...

Glen,

Seeing El Cap makes me envious! Does the NPS give you any grief when shooting there? The rig screams "professional" and typically brings notice upon oneself. I've had run ins with butinski rangers before in other locales but since Yosemite was Ansel Adam's "home" I'm curious if there is some special dispensation granted photographers.

Thanks,
Mark
 
I don't have a RED yet, but I love my porta-jib, we used it all of the time on a road trip for corporate work, we ended up jibbing so much just because it gave a great look to everything that honestly a lot of our competition doing corporate work wouldn't have bothered with, haha.

We got ridiculously good at assembling and taking down that jib, my business partner could do it himself in about 8 minutes. I still think it's tough to do it yourself because I'm always worried about some part hitting me. We had a few jib injuries from fatigue, last day my DP put his hand between the moving parts where the clamp is, and it cut through his skin on his pinky finger basically to the bone, but we had to just use the first aid kit and immobilize it, tape it up, etc. and move on. No time for stitches, haha, but it was nasty...
 
What about the T-Jib T-Slide? I talked to them at NAB and they seemed to know what they were doing. Their X model is spec'd to hold cameras up to 50lbs and the guy said a number of Red owners were buying them.
 
When you boil all of that down there's really nothing that will beat the CamTram when it comes to what you're looking for. There is a new track on the market that was designed primarily for use with the CamTram. It's modular, lightweight, very sturdy and wonderfully engineered. You need to check out the 'Track In The Box'. www.TrackInTheBox.net
 
The new Matthews DC Slider looks nice. Haven't seen it in person or tried it though. Anyone check it out at NAB?
 
Camtram +1. For small and low budget hands down the best option out there. Popping it on a ladder takes less than five minutes (aluminum crossbar and screw down clamps).
Excitedly waiting for my 'trackinabox' from Bruce right now.

will post some pics when I get it.
 
IMO, a crane with a motorized head that can run on standard ground track is a great investment, because the types of moves that can be done on such a setup are almost unlimited.
 
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