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RED Camera File Footage *Very Dark* How to fix?

H

HeadHog

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Hello,

I'm new to this forum and Hope I have a fixable question. :yesnod:

I own a production company and we recently finished production on the RED camera. It is our first time working with the camera. We hired a professional DP who owned an entire RED setup. The footage viewed from the LCD screen, while on set, was fantastic!

During the shooting dates we used 2 locations a night shot in the Hollywood Hills and Indoor Housing setup. We had a tremendous lighting setup for both locations.

Here is my problem..

We loaded all the footage onto an external hard-drive and everything transfered just fine. I had to leave town for 2 weeks the next day. I've just returned and sat down to look over the film and start numbering to help the editors with the shotlist...

Every Single File is a lot darker than what was viewed on the LCD during production. It honestly looks like we hardly used any lights at all. The still photos show plenty of light on all sets. Is there a problem with my Quicktime Codec?

I'm running a new MacBook Pro 15" and downloaded all the codec from this website.

I'm hoping this can be an easy fix? Any suggestions?

p.s. My DP is now on another job and the backup footage is at his house. I'm supposed to be dropping off the footage to my editors on Monday.. However, they can't work this...
 
Headhog, have you brought your clips into Red Alert or Redcine? Make sure your ASA is set to what you used on set. There shouldn't be a night and day difference between what you saw on set and what you are seeing in the Red apps. Quicktime might display the proxies darker but even then it shouldn't be dramatically different. The key though is to go in to Red apps make sure all of the settings match what you had on set and you should have nice pictures. Report back if this is not the case.

Also, you need to register with a real name or you will be banned eventually. It's the forum policy. Just a heads up.
 
...or:

the red one has an option to either record the quick time wrappers with the look/setting that is used at the moment of recording OR to use a look/setting that has been set previously. if that previously set look was accidentally set to - let's say - a very high contrast or low asa setting, you'd be getting something similar then what you just described.
now the problem with that second option is that you wouldn't see any irregularities during recording - but since we talk only quick time wrappers - so metadata - here, there's no need to panic.

all you'd have to do realy - if that's the case - is to create new quick time wrappers. get "clipfinder". it's a free software that lets you browse your clips, lets you reset (or even grade) your proxies with one click, and a lot more...
 
Sorry you are having trouble with the underexposed footage. But you also failed to adhere to the real name policy. Some poster may not respond. Just a heads up.
 
quicktime files tend to be on the dark side sometimes, especially with macbooks.

or you hired a cheap DP off craigslist who is "professional" cuz they have a red set up..

hopefully it is the first situation I named, and not the second. cuz people will get burned if they take the donkey way of making movies.
 
Are you looking at r3ds or some sort of export? Id say your best option is definitely to reopen the R3D files in redalert and see what you can salvage. Im betting theres got be something buried in there if it looked ok on set. If the dp was viewing Rec709 they may have underexposed by accident.
 
Yeah what gamma was used on set and what are you viewing with now. Also, what do your histograms say in RED Alert? Go thing is it's raw so if it was looking proper on an LCD monitor and you still have the R3Ds there's no reason why you can't get that look again.

Noah
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Headhog, have you brought your clips into Red Alert or Redcine? Make sure your ASA is set to what you used on set. There shouldn't be a night and day difference between what you saw on set and what you are seeing in the Red apps. Quicktime might display the proxies darker but even then it shouldn't be dramatically different. The key though is to go in to Red apps make sure all of the settings match what you had on set and you should have nice pictures. Report back if this is not the case.

Also, you need to register with a real name or you will be banned eventually. It's the forum policy. Just a heads up.
Click to expand...

I've now opened up some of the clips in RedAlert. (for some odd reason clips won't load in REDcine) I see I can adjust the ISO to brighten up the clips however, would I have to do this for each clip? How do I find the ASA settings on RedAlert? You've lost me a little on the Histogram protion...

I have to admit this is a very active board with lots of good responses.

I've spoken with my DP and he said the ISO can be adjust or to go with color correction. I'm very firmilar with color correction however I'd like to restore the footage as natural as possible.

I've looked at the R3D files in REDAlert and the Smaller files in Quicktime.

p.s. I'm sorry about the Real Name policy I didn't realize when I signed up. Can I change it without deleting my account? Hopefully a Mod can help me out.
 
Wow, so....
First ASA and ISO are the same thing.

When you look at the files natively in Red Alert and you press the METADATA button on the top left, do the files still look darker than on set?

How about hitting DEFAULT right next to METADATA.

That being said, did you or a crew member calibrate the monitors on set?
Is the computer screen you are viewing them on calibrated?

Don't judge luminance or color off of the proxies.

If the clips wont open in Red Cine then you more than likely need to update it.

Lastly, if the DP's answer to what might be drastically underexposed footage from what was viewed on set is, "you can crank up the ISO." Then you might consider a new one.

This is all based on the limited info present here. If the DP reads this, feel free to tell your side.
 
J. Eric Camp said:
Wow, so....
First ASA and ISO are the same thing.

When you look at the files natively in Red Alert and you press the METADATA button on the top left, do the files still look darker than on set?

How about hitting DEFAULT right next to METADATA.

That being said, did you or a crew member calibrate the monitors on set?
Is the computer screen you are viewing them on calibrated?

Don't judge luminance or color off of the proxies.

If the clips wont open in Red Cine then you more than likely need to update it.

Lastly, if the DP's answer to what might be drastically underexposed footage from what was viewed on set is, "you can crank up the ISO." Then you might consider and new one.

This is all based on the limited info present here. If the DP reads this feel free to tell your side.
Click to expand...


Here is my DP's reel. He has added 4 clips from my movie.

2 girls talking, girl in bathtub, wine breaking lastly shirtless guy spinning shot.. They are all 4 right after one another.

http://www.natetieman.com/RED_Reel.html

They have turned out perfect for him however those same clips look dark on my computer.

Using the default settings has almost fixed the problem compared to using Metadata. I think we might have a winner....

Do I need to do that with every clip, if so, how do I save in all the default settings to give to the editors?

I'm all about saving my editors as much work as possible. Time is Money.

**Side Note. There is a reason I hire people to do camera work. This is a total new camera to my company so we are on a learning curve. With that said we enjoyed the camera and plan on using it in the future, hence the learning curve now.

I really appreciate all the help!
 
Head, sorry I interchange ISO/ASA but should have been more clear since it's labeled ISO in the RED apps. If the DP lit to 320 ISO and you are looking at the footage with the metadata that was being used on set (follow J. Eric's advice about the metadata tab) then what you see in RED Alert should roughly match what you were seeing on set. You could see some variance if your gamma space is set differently than what the DP used on set. For example if he was using Redspace and you changed it to REC709 you'll have a different gamma curve.

I highly encourage a phone call with the DP to make sure you guys are on the same page. I will tell you that leaving the decision for color correction could be dangerous because you could be introducing some problems into the footage at this initial stage. If they will be going back to the R3Ds, then I suppose that will let them get back to square one, but if the media you'll be creating from Red Apps is going to be the final, make sure you get it right. Don't leave them to fix it in color correction.

It takes a little time to get a feel for how to get the most out of the RED RAW files, but after you do a lot of these types of problems go away. You'll have an understanding of the digital lab part of this.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Head, sorry I interchange ISO/ASA but should have been more clear since it's labeled ISO in the RED apps. If the DP lit to 320 ISO and you are looking at the footage with the metadata that was being used on set (follow J. Eric's advice about the metadata tab) then what you see in RED Alert should roughly match what you were seeing on set. You could see some variance if your gamma space is set differently than what the DP used on set. For example if he was using Redspace and you changed it to REC709 you'll have a different gamma curve.

I highly encourage a phone call with the DP to make sure you guys are on the same page. I will tell you that leaving the decision for color correction could be dangerous because you could be introducing some problems into the footage at this initial stage. If they will be going back to the R3Ds, then I suppose that will let them get back to square one, but if the media you'll be creating from Red Apps is going to be the final, make sure you get it right. Don't leave them to fix it in color correction.

It takes a little time to get a feel for how to get the most out of the RED RAW files, but after you do a lot of these types of problems go away. You'll have an understanding of the digital lab part of this.
Click to expand...


Thanks, for the response.

You are correct, It seems to default to 320 ISO/Metadata instead of the DEFUALT. The Metadata looks very grey and washed out.

I want to deliver my footage in the *Default* settings (instead of Metadata) to my Editors. How would I accomplish this??

They have edited on the RED many times so I'm sure they will have all the applications. However, I want to deliver them as less work as possible for reasons stated above.
 
We may need a bit more information from you to help give you a good workflow. Need to know the following (might need this information from the DP)

1. What was the ISO he was lighting to? By default, Red Alert will go to 320. The metadata from the files will show what was used during the shoot.

2. Were any other metadata controls changed from the camera defaults while shooting? Contrast, brightness, curves? If so, were these done for specific effect, to tweak a monitor, etc?

3. What gamma space was monitored on set? Rec709, Redspace?

4. Was the DP using a light meter? Was he using False Color, histograms, waveform?

5. Was the on set monitor calibrated? Did it have a LUT applied?

6. Did you shoot charts? Macbeth, grey card, anything?

7. What kind of lighting was used? Tungsten? HMI? Combination?

8. Can you please take a snapshot of the RED Alert window with one of your clips loaded and the settings you have decided on as looking about right. Make sure the histogram is visible.

Thanks!
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
your dp's RED reel looks really dark.. and his other reel on his site looks lit extremely hard..

I dont know what to say..
Click to expand...

Yeah the reel does show absolutely all of the clips to be dark. They look pretty good but they are dark. He may just be trying to protect the highlights a bit to much.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
We may need a bit more information from you to help give you a good workflow. Need to know the following (might need this information from the DP)

1. What was the ISO he was lighting to? By default, Red Alert will go to 320. The metadata from the files will show what was used during the shoot.

2. Were any other metadata controls changed from the camera defaults while shooting? Contrast, brightness, curves? If so, were these done for specific effect, to tweak a monitor, etc?

3. What gamma space was monitored on set? Rec709, Redspace?

4. Was the DP using a light meter? Was he using False Color, histograms, waveform?

5. Was the on set monitor calibrated? Did it have a LUT applied?

6. Did you shoot charts? Macbeth, grey card, anything?

7. What kind of lighting was used? Tungsten? HMI? Combination?

8. Can you please take a snapshot of the RED Alert window with one of your clips loaded and the settings you have decided on as looking about right. Make sure the histogram is visible.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

1) 320 iso
2) tint ranged from -8 to -12 depending on the mixture of fluorescent and tungsten lights.
3) redspace
4) false color and rgb histogram
5) no on set monitor
6) no color charts
7) tungsten lighting

"Give your editor the original files. I only rendered a 422 prores QuickTime file in redrushes (no color correction) from the original file, that is what you see on my website" - From my DP

I hope I provided you with the answers you were looking for? Isn't REDAlert used more for "Looks" on set compared to REDCine?
 
Okay, that is helpful. Any chance of also providing #8. While in Red Alert, hit
shift-apple-4 which will bring up crosshairs. Use it to select your Red Alert window which will save it as a picture. If possible, post that here so we can see what is going on visually.

Red Alert can be used for doing initial image processing just like Redcine but some do prefer the interface of Redcine. I use a combination of Clipfinder and Red Alert for a lot of my processing/rendering.
 
You don't have to do it for each clip if all your clips are consistent and only need the same correction. You can fix the first clip, then load all the clips in Red Rushes, selecting only the first clip's RSX file to apply to all of them.

Fine if you are in the same set up, but won't work if your clips need individual treatment.

Think of it as a telecine session, where you are converting your film footage to tape. You correct each clip as you go.
 
If you need to fix clips in groups, I highly suggest Clipfinder with it's handy Lift-Stamp function or Redcine. In Clipfinder, it utilizes RSX just like Red Alert. The only thing it's missing right now is auto white balance. But you can use Red Alert to establish White balance and then in Clipfinder it will show up, then go back to using lift and stamp.

Anyway, as Jim Hare says, treat these apps like a lab. You're aiming to get the best image to start from. Try not to clip important information, try not to introduce tons of noise, and try to provide the colorist with a nice fat histogram to work with, with a lot of the information in the center region.
 
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