red audio

[kiwired]

Hi all at Red, I am researching for a telefeature which will be shot on Red in a few months time and being a sound mixer it's the audio side I am trying to nail down. I have read a few times that the quoted 24 bit audio is in practice more like 16 bit and that the mic preamp side is less then satisfactory for a professional camera of this type. What do you at RED have to say about this, can any of it be sorted with new firmware? Also the line input level is fixed and not adjustable when lining up different mixers etc. Is this also going to be remedied in future firmwares? Any chance of getting the option of digital audio in? This would be a vast improvement and as I understand it also technically much simpler to achieve than the Red One analogue way which is at present only really good enough for a guide/scratch track for high end projects. If it had digital AES inputs then we could confidently say to post production that the camera tracks could be used all the way thru the post process and not need to be replaced.

Any info on the timecode side - will it take standard external timecode and how long will it keep synch for on its internal clock?

These things are no deal breaker as whatever the set up we will shoot as with film and have a separate audio rec etc, just keen to know what is in the pipeline to maybe improve the current set up. Looking forward to the Red though, we'll get a great prod look without spending mega bucks on 35mm.

Regards,

Chris Hiles.

 

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

In a cine style shoot I have a bit of a problem that I have at least 2 cables attached to the camera (or 2 wireless sender/receivers).
With a 2 mike, stereo monitoring situation its 3 cables (or 4 wireless thingy´s) to/from the Red.

You have to monitor the recorded sound and I bet the camera op does not want to do it.
So the backchannel (how do you call it in english? In german its "Hinterband") to the soundguy is necessary.

Cheers,
Jochen

 

[Johann Schulz]

Audio is 50% of the picture, they say nowadays, but hollywood has taken that a bit too far...

This is the second time I've said this today, "I don't have my camera yet", but I've just noticed that we've gone up to the next 500 - YEA!

The closer I get to my machine, the more nervous I get; mostly good. I was a sound guy and camera tech in film school and I plan to make low-end docs as well as full film-like shoots as the projects evolve. But how small can my crew be, a crew of three? I hope so, as I've got a doc about a woman taking care of 170 cats, and one on the last of the real film projectionists, who play films on old 35mm projectors not for people, but for the gods! I tell too much, but my point is that some of my subjects are very intimate. It's important that crew intrusion is minimal!

I think the best thing is to go back to the on-line RED ONE manual for those of us who are still waiting for the goods. I don't know how much build 16 changes any sound issues, but the dudes seem to be pretty open to explaining all the new candy.

I have no experience on set with this cam yet, so that's why I'm nervous, in a good way, (I've witnessed awesome footage!!), and your post kiwired, sends me searching for more answers, too. Thanks.

BTW, searching through the archives tends to eat into my making out with the wife time and she's getting really pissed off. I'm trying to balance blue balls with a big head of confidence sidewinded by technoslurpancy. It's a great time to be alive. Ha ha ha....

 

[Rocco Schult]

no digital audio afaik - if it would be, it would be selectable.
I think some options on this camera (analogue audio with 4 channels is one of them) are contributes to the people wanting the cam to be EB/ENG and hardwired, non-hardwired cam etc. what the camera is not in my eyes.
However, I don't see any 'upgrades' via software in the audio section.
Audio is currently unencoded/uncompressed and thus don't expect the existing quality to evolve. Take it as it is, whatever this may be.
No comment on the quality though - I don't use it.

Timecode can be jamsynced with external TC, so it synchronises once every take. Check in advance if that method suits you. I recommend Ambient Clockit, but there are other solutions and also they are not perfect. It is a separate clock running. My experience is about 1-2 frame/s per day off.
Can't comment on sync once and free run.

 

[sublimefilms]

If at all possible do use the camera for your master sound.

The levels are whacked - in hardware - not software.

Mic level recording is horrible and full of hiss, plus you must use the Red mini-xlr adapters, and phantom power is a mess.

If you must use the camera as your master, record line with an external pre - and do NOT use the Red minixlr adapters. Quality of the A/D at line level is passable but not great, about as good as a low end pc sound card.

For our recent project we needed to record 64 channels, most of which went to protools and 744ts, but we recorded 12 of the channels to Reds out of necessity. Sounds OK, but not great, hopefully we wont have to use those tracks.

Keep in mind its a pain to work with the the audio in the R3d files - specially if your shooting 4k 16:9.

Be aware that the camera has no timecode out, so you need to lock it to a master gen or a 744t, etc. We did not have any timecode problems at 23.976 - most of the time the cameras are hard wired to a generator, sometime we use lockits.